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And there you go... If Rafa and Gui are ok with you wearing the rank you've earned at 10th planet, nobody else in BJJ/ GJJ should have the room to say otherwise. And if you find yourself in the place or situation where the instructor wants impose some monkey hierarchal/ ego trip I'd say that's a good divining rod for whether you should even train there or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Rick
Brandon said it perfectly in my opinion. If you're training somewhere in the Gi then ask the instructor and they will let you know how they feel. I would like to thionk most instructors would honour a No-Gi ranking and, let's face it, after rolling with you they will know if you're full of shit. The Gi game is different but it's not as different as some people are making out, comparing Judo BBs and TKD BBs.
Denny told us at his seminar that when training with Caio Terra he asked if he should wear his black belt or his last Gi rank, and Caio told him not to be stupid and wear his Black Belt. In my opinion, it should be up to the instructor.
It is way different. Every day I train in the gi I see more and more differences. Delariva, spider, lapel guard, reverse de la riva, worm guard, etc. they are entire games in gi that barely exist in no gi. Passing is far different as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser Taylor
We claim 10 th planet is it's own system. Then we throw on the bb when we get the chance.
I understand Caio and others have given permission. I won't question that. I just think we should tread lightly otherwise we may look hypocritical
Yeah that's why I feel that it's the instructors decision. If you are visiting somewhere then it really doesn't make too big a difference, but if you're going to be training often in the Gi under a new instructor then he needs to let you know whete you stand. You can't really expect to sit on the mat wearing a gi and a Black Belt and be repeatedly asking the instructor how to break grips and how Spider Guard works.Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_littell
But going into a new school with people you don't know and just assuming that because you're a No Gi WHATEVER Belt that uou can wear a Gi WHATEVER Belt may come across as disrespectful. Speaking to the coach will clear everything up :)
I would respectfully disagree with this. All those different guards you listed....does Helio, Rickson, Kron, or Marcelo use any of those? I don't think so. Does this make them not legit black belts in the gi? Yes, it can be drastically different IF you choose to train that way. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see the logic in saying you are not a bb in the gi because you don't use certain techniques that one particular school emphasizes. That's just my take on it. And btw, I'm also a bb under Pablo Popovitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_littell
I fully agree with this sentiment. I really liked watching Henry Akin on Inside BJJ. I go to a really "old school" bjj academy. Fabio studied with Rolls and then got his bb from Rickson. And he teaches simply that style, which I love. But, you will inevitably get people who do play spider guard, etc. My only interest in knowing those guard styles is to know how to smash through them or pass. Spider guard would definitely work with my size...6'3, 190...but I have no interest in them. I love watching Kron compete because of how he is able to still kill it with closed guard and fundamentals. And, to me, I think Eddie's system is actually more in line with Gracie self defense fundamentals than the haters think. The gi and no gi are very different, but I find it sometimes easier to break down guys' posture with the gi and use rubber guard. That cross collar grip is priceless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Ho
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Ho
The argument that you don't need knowledge of these guards to be a competent black belt in this day and age is a bit reaching. I bet if I spoke to kron or Marcelo, they have advanced knowledge of all guards mentioned because they have to pass them. I could make a DVD on all the guards mentioned but I don't play them. You have to know them in this day and age
Let's use a hypothetical. Let's say someone trains all no gi with Eddie from white to black. He then goes to a gi school and puts on a black belt. He wouldn't have a basic understanding of grip breaking, cross chokes, Ezekiel's, bread cutters, baseball chokes, gi brabos, etc..., he wouldn't know how to pass any of the open guards that exist only in gi, like spider, lasso, lapel, etc. he might be able to bring the game into his realm in some areas, but overall would be lost. Is that guy deserving of wearing a black belt in gi?
If someone had a basic question about how to break a cross sleeve grip, he couldn't answer it. If a student asked how to pass a tripod guard, he would be at a loss. That is not a black belt. That's a guy parading another arts rank in a different art.
For the last two years, I have trained gi six days a week, and I had experience up to almost purple before that, and only now is understanding how to use the gi clicking at a high level. Sure, I could beat black belts on my first day, but so could a d1 wrestler beat many tenth planet browns. It doesn't mean they deserve the rank.
Is it disrespectful to just not wear a belt? Serious question cause if I were to put the gi on and not put a belt on, I think that could by pass the whole issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Wear a white belt then
Seems like the simplest and correct answer is that you should ask your instructor and it is their prerogative.
Although I have to admit I see Louis' point. Rickson or maybe let's go further and say Helio don't know any of the new guards and no one is asking them for their belts back.
I think, to me (bearing in mind i'm just a purple belt), a black belt is not defined by the number of techniques you know. It is your deep understanding of the 'concepts' and your ability to solve problems.
You see this even with JJM's interview on EBR. Rickson raised JJM's game because of the concepts he taught not so much any individual techniques taught. I remember a Henry Atkins' interview as well that talked about when spider guard just came out, Rickson had problems with it. Then he comes back the next day and starts destroying everyone. Obviously an extreme example since Rickson is Rickson, but I think that is the point. There will always be new techniques, but a black belt is someone who can, from experience figure it out because he has developed his understanding of the concepts of what makes the human body work.
Esp in BJJ where standards are very subjective, where, one instructor's blue belts are a diff standard from another, I think that it's very hard to discredit someone who's a legit no gi black belt, if they exhibit the qualities i mention above. End of the day, they will figure out the intricacies and the techniques that will work for them. Just because they dont' know how to do a bread cutter doesn't mean they aren't black belts.
Maybe I'm oblivious to the significant differences because i've studied both gi and no gi my whole BJJ career, but I believe the concepts are not as different as people think. Say for example guards, people's guards work based on establishing a type of 'control' (grip or clinch etc.) on the other person. You take away that control and there is no guard. I would think that after being caught in spider grips a few times a no gi BB can quickly learn to either not let someone get the same grip, or break it or grab the person's pants next time it happens. (but maybe i'm wrong)
But again, I think it's the instructor's prerogative and all this is irrelevant in the end if you ask whoever you are training with and respect that. OR if you don't, then move. :)