rolling lightly

Been watching lots of videos of the masters practicing. It's all like 40% strength at 60-75% speed. Then at that level they practice technique for hours and hours. It's more like a dance than a wrestling match. This was kind of an epiphany for me.

None of the coaches taught me that in class, and I only see the fundamentals classes where it's 12 fresh whitebelts fumbling through basic movements and crashing into each other. It's either that or tons of video of really high level guys competing where they are going really hard.

I strained my acl the other day just because both myself and my partner were doing something extremely basic but at 80%. I didn't even realize at the time we were doing anything wrong.

I think my training is going to go a lot better for me now.

What are your goals in training? When I started, there was a wrestler dude who had a 4stripe white belt whom I partnered with on occasion. I noticed that he went really hard in sparring and clearly had the intention of showing that he would not and could not be tapped. Eventually, he fizzled out due to injury and we hadn't seen him around the academy. 2 YEARS LATER, (about a few days ago) he came back to sign up again, and things were a little awkward cuz there are a number of people including myself that had surpassed him since he had taken all that time off. My goal from day one (and still is my goal) is to stay consistent. Train in a manner that allows you to train 7 times a week, multiple times a day, even if you aren't looking to go that route. But there's nothing to prove. Just by training and starting this journey that 99.9% of the world will never undertake proves everything about a person, imo. Stay consistent and learn the movements. Victory and defeat should be a natural process reflective of your time spent on the mat and your knowledge; not your aggression, intensity, or ego.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arman Fathi

What are your goals in training?

---

Learn technique, improve technique, master technique. Avoid injury.

Some people also include competition in their list of goals. I don't have much interest in that. I've competed extensively in TKD including the national level. I loved it and I love competition, but I have little drive to do it myself at this point. I'm 42 years old, I'm a whitebelt in JJ. Competition is not something I'm focued on.

That said, when I am more advanced and really know what I'm doing on the mat, I'm going to want to be able to turn the volume up with my partner. I want to be able to go hard, but I want to be safe about it.

It was that way in TKD. You don't want whitebelts kicking each other in the head at 100%. You teach control and technique from day 1 and for a long time you limit how hard guys are going with each other. Slowly over time you teach them to turn up the volume and go a little harder, a little harder, a little harder.

That's what makes a really good TKD instructor. When you spar with the guy he's going just hard enough to push you, but not enough to hurt you, and not enough to overwhelm you. He trains you by slowly turning up the volume on you over years. Eventually when you are a blackbelt, he's coming at you really hard. If you fuck up you're going to get cracked. But even then he's not going to KO you during class.

But TKD is also an extreme example. It can be quite dangerous. Even when you're training for competition and using headgear and a ton of foot and leg padding, you don't go 100% very much.

I weigh 135 pounds. If you put on the heaviest headgear you have, and I put on a wrap-around food pad, and then I wheel kick you in the temple, or in the jaw... I dont care how big you are you are getting cracked... you have to be safe, so you practice control basically all the time.

You can go hard just with technique and people will be safe. Competition should be a way you want to test yourself if you have the desire. The beautiful thing about jiu jitsu is that there are a million other reasons that the art is great. Consistency is the key. That, along with never being the guy that walks in after a ton of time off to see that I had been surpassed by a ton of people, drive me personally. But also fitness, friends, and too many things to list are all great reasons:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arman Fathi

You can go hard just with technique and people will be safe. )

---

Yes but technique is learned over time. A whitebelt has zero technique, and therefore by your own statement cannot go hard and be safe.

Personally i feel like competing as a whitebelt is a bad idea. Just last weekend we had a guy go with the team to Houston to compete and come back with a hyperextended elbow from an armbar. Now his training is going to be fucked for months and I doubt her learned much from the experience. He learned "dont leave your arm sticking out there", but he would have learned that from a loss just as well as from an injury.

Instead he competed with a guy who didn't know the difference. You can lock up the arm enough to control it, threaten damage, and force the tap. Or you can crank it and break the guys arm before he is fully aware what's about to happen.

Not only is the guy doing the armbar too new to know when to stop, the guy getting armbarred is not experienced enough to know how early to tap.

The guy was a whitebelt, and I consider that to be a pointless and unnecessary injury. But he wants to compete and no one at my school is going to say shit to him about it.

You're going to train for years and years and years, there is plenty of time to compete after you know what you're doing. Why be in a hurry to prove that in your complete lack of knowledge skill and experience in JJ you can beat another guy who is equally clueless. That's pointless.

The guy is literally not allowed to roll yet at our school, unless he comes to the competition classes. Pushing him out there onto the competition mat is, to me, irresponsible.

I mean maybe when you're a very advanced whitebelt, think you're getting close to promoted.. maybe then. At my school that's actually a green belt though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craig Murray

Yes but technique is learned over time. A whitebelt has zero technique, and therefore by your own statement cannot go hard and be safe.

---

A good conversation so far!

IMHO, a whitebelt does not necessarily have zero technique.

Perhaps we can say that with increasing experience comes increased safety and trustworthiness. But yet, I see so many high level students focusing on flow more and less on going hard. Maybe they know something.

Anyway, I suspect that the less technique you have, the less reason you have to go hard (except to train his cardio): you're going to have to stop and think eventually. You're eventually going to have to work on things you're not good at. If you're not good at it, do you really want to do it hard and fast?

I like rolling light when I have techniques I want to try out or when I want to work on my weak side. I like rolling at about 70% when I want to turn individual techniques into little chains and see how they work in earnest. I like rolling hard when I'm preparing for tournament.

Full disclosure: My first tournament was this past weekend and my first roll in that tournament was a shock. Felt like the dude wanted to kill me. So a little more hard rolling with big dudes would have helped.

Anyway, all in all, I think I agree with Craig.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

IMHO, a whitebelt does not necessarily have zero technique.

.

---

Definitely agree with this.
Personally I prefer to roll light. I learn better that way and I'm more likely to try new things then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhys

Definitely agree with this.
Personally I prefer to roll light. I learn better that way and I'm more likely to try new things then.

---

What do you learn when a blue belt or purple belt annihilates you at high speed? I sometimes don't even have time to understand how I was dismantled! lol :)

But when a higher belt is rolling slow and lets you figure out how much trouble you're in before he takes advantage of superior grips, your compromised base, whatever...you have moments of clarity, yes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craig Murray

Personally i feel like competing as a whitebelt is a bad idea. Just last weekend we had a guy go with the team to Houston to compete and come back with a hyperextended elbow from an armbar. Now his training is going to be fucked for months and I doubt her learned much from the experience. He learned "dont leave your arm sticking out there", but he would have learned that from a loss just as well as from an injury.

Instead he competed with a guy who didn't know the difference. You can lock up the arm enough to control it, threaten damage, and force the tap. Or you can crank it and break the guys arm before he is fully aware what's about to happen.

---

Competing as a white belt isn't a bad idea. Jumping into competition after a short amount of time spent is 1-3 MONTHS. I know dudes who've been training 6 months as a white belt, and they give blue belts a rough go in competition. You should always try and challenge yourself, whether it's in the gym or in a competition.

Roll how ever you want, but I think you should be putting out 80%-100% when rolling or drilling a few times a week IMO. Mix it up, But if you only roll light, when you get into a comp scenario you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

**Also don't leave your health in the hands of your opponent, when I enter competitions I am forced with a choice Break your arm, or not (and maybe lose because I was being nice) and Let my arm break or tap.

For me, it's on you to tap in competition, if you don't you're going to be hurt for a bit. If I'm caught, I'm 95% of the time going to tap, I have shit to do at the office on monday morning and can't afford to get seriously injured.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

What do you learn when a blue belt or purple belt annihilates you at high speed? I sometimes don't even have time to understand how I was dismantled! lol :)

But when a higher belt is rolling slow and lets you figure out how much trouble you're in before he takes advantage of superior grips, your compromised base, whatever...you have moments of clarity, yes?

---

Nothing, being dismantled by blue belts and purple belts, etc. comes down to confidence in your body movements, and in the technique.