Any one out there doing this? If so how hard was it to get started? Where do you shop? etc etc. What else is everyone in here doing if you diet?
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Any one out there doing this? If so how hard was it to get started? Where do you shop? etc etc. What else is everyone in here doing if you diet?
I picked up the paleo diet a little over a year ago and lost 30 pounds of fat, while keeping my muscle and not losing any strength. The only cardio I did was judo rolling (started 10th P 4 months ago) and that was twice a week tops. I try to keep my diet as paleo as possible, but I do throw a cheat meal/day in once a week and I buy regular meat instead of grass fed because that shit gets expensive. I def recomend giving it a try.
I have used the paleo off and on. If I could afford it I would eat this way all the time. My results were amazing as far as energy levels go. Im 44 and when Im on it I feel like I'm 24
check out "is sugar toxic" thread from a few weeks ago. watch the video
I've been eating Paleo since October or so of last year. I really cannot recommend it enough. I lost about 20 lbs, and I am as strong as I was then. I feel great.
I did not find it hard to get started, but I am one of those obsessive types that likes to throw himself into something completely.
I buy grass-fed beef in bulk from a California ranch, and eat that pretty much daily. You can check out http://www.eatwild.com to find sources close to you. Aside from that I try to eat a lot of greens, cooked in animal fat. At first I stayed away from fruit, because I was trying to maximize my weight loss, but now I eat a lot of berries. I am lucky to be in LA, where we have abundant access to local meat and produce. You may not have that, but don't fall into what Robb Wolf calls "Hippie Excuse for Failure #1". That is, "I can't get grass-fed beef, so I am going to eat bagels instead."
Avoid all processed food, grains, legumes, dairy, vegetable oils and seed oils, and sugar. If you do not have access to grass-fed meat, just eat the leaner cuts, to avoid the excessive Omega-6 load in the fats of conventionally raised animals. That is pretty much all there is to it. If you actually abide by that, you should have success. I would recommend Robb Wolf's book "The Paleo Solution".
I actually eat pretty low carb, and feel good that way doing jiu jitsu and a strength training program. However, if you feel you need a higher carb intake to support your workload, you can always eat starchy tubers like yams and sweet potatoes. It is about avoiding food toxins, not macronutrient ratios. Starch is just glucose, which seems to be perfectly healthy. Fructose is what you want to avoid.
Thanks guys. This is why I love 10th planet so much, every one has such good information. Mr. Tom Van, you seem to know a lot about paleo, do you know if whole foods would be a better place to buy the meat? When you buy leaner cuts of meat what style of cut do you buy if it isn't grass fed. I live in New Orleans so I don't believe that I'll be able to buy grass fed cows as easily.
Whole Foods usually does source some grass fed meat, but you will pay a very high price to buy it there. At the Whole Foods around me I see prices of $20+ per lb for grass fed beef. That is compared to the $10/lb I pay when I buy it direct from the ranch. You can get it as low as $7/lb if you buy enough of it at a time (depending on who you are ordering from). Check out that eatwild.com. There may be some Louisiana or Mississippi ranchers that will ship to you. Also, make sure you learn the difference between grass fed and organic. A place could technically be feeding their cows organic doughnuts and be certified organic. And, just because a place is not organic, does not mean it is not quality beef. The important thing is that they are grass fed and grass finished. That is, they do not go to a feed lot.
For the leaner cuts of conventionally raised beef, sirloin and round are pretty lean. You can google lean cuts of beef and figure it out. Don't drive yourself crazy though. If you cut out all processed food and just stick to eating meat, vegetables, and fruit you'll be doing a heck of a lot better than almost everyone else.
Don't you guys have a lot cheap seafood down there? Wild caught seafood is some of the best stuff you can eat. The farm-raised seafood has the same problems that feed lot cattle have: They feed them grains, their Omega-3 goes way down, and their Omega-6 goes way up. And, they lose some other valuable nutrients.
If you are eating a fair amount of seafood you don't need it, but if not, and you are eating conventionally raised beef, it is not a bad idea so supplement with a bit of fish oil; maybe 2g total EPA & DHA a day (Your body can convert between the two so the exact ratio isn't that important).
Finally, along with diet, other commonly overlooked issues are proper sleep, stress management, and getting out in the sun. All of those are important factors in your long-term health.
This. A lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg W
Also, thank you so much for the info Tom! I've made a commitment to eliminate fructose from my diet wherever possible. I'd love to go full-on paleo but I think just like jiu jitsu it's going to take some time to get good at it. I'm working on it. Food and I have a very complicated relationship. I have good access to farmer's markets, two Whole Foods, a Trader Joe's, and every cattle farmer in Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, and both Dakotas. I have no excuse. Well, still kinda broke for a while yet, but still...
Thanks again; great info brother!
Excellent! Glad that I could be of some small help. It was quite a paradigm shift for me to realize how important the food we eat actually is. I always kind of blew that stuff off, but now that I have seen the difference first hand I am sold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Hyatt
Lol. I know you're just trolling, but I feel compelled to point out that those guys have no idea what they are talking about.
Tom does the Paleo Solution include recipes? Or does it just tell you the benefits
of paleo?
That book has a 30 day meal plan, but I'll hook you up with some additional resources.
I've been (mostly) paleo for a year now and I've never felt better. I strongly encourage it to everyone. Robb Wolf was actually a member of ours at 10th Planet Santa Fe up until he moved back to Reno recently.
everydaypaleo.com has a lot of recipes on it.
Since you asked about other members diets. I have been vegetarian for a couple years and recently switched to vegan 3 months ago. The only reason I decided to not eat any meat at all is because of how bad it is environmentally, and supporting it in any capacity is just not very good. I think that once I learn how to hunt and prepare my own meat I will start including it in small amounts to my current diet. Overall it is going very well, I have gained 8 pounds in the 3 months even with stomach flu setbacks. I feel great (but who doesn't at 21?) and I feel like I am making the right decision, which is very important for me. If you ask me you should really kill what you eat.
Meat is a touchy issue. Anti-meat militants feel strongly in one direction, and pro-meat militants feel strongly in the opposite direction. I for one absolutely hate the meat industry as it is today, because as far as I'm concerned, they are feeding us poison.
Meat glue, pink slime, antibiotics, growth hormones, genetic modification, superbug bacteria, etc.
So I started to hunt. I don't like killing things, but I like meat, and I won't eat the shit from the supermarket because often times it is imported from countries that have zero food standard regulations (Fish especially). Beside that, I personally believe that the food industry is one of the main reasons behind the unhealth of North America. (Conspiracy)
I hunt one or two deer every year, and my family (myself, my wife and two kids) eat every edible scrap. I also hunt and eat black bear. I will be hunting moose for the first time this fall. I also plan on eating squirrel this year (My daughter really wants to try it).
I figure eating wild game is about as paleo as you can get. These animals have lived in nature, untouched, eating their natural diet.
I also do gardening and catch my own fish. I'm nowhere near gardening to the point where I can feed my family from our own stock all year-round, so we still buy veggies and legumes and all that, but we rarely buy meat. (Chicken is the exception, and beef from the local farmers market once in a while for tacos)
But in today's fast-food and instant-gratification society, a majority of people aren't willing to get their hands dirty for their food. McDicks is always right around the corner.
I've never heard of the Paleo diet before, but it seems I am close to being on it already. I need to stop the sugar intake. Coffee is the worst culprit for me: 2 or 3 coffees a day, double double. I did switch to black last year for about 6 months, but then started cheating once in a while. I will switch back to black starting now. My sugar in coffee is probably the main thing that is keeping this little spare tire on my waist, because other than beer and cheeses, I really don't put anything unhealthy in my body.
The sustainability issue surrounding meat consumption is an important issue. It should be noted that nearly all of those problems arise from current industrial agricultural practices. By consuming grass fed, pasture raised animals you are supporting a sustainable model where animals feed off of the land, and their waste fertilizes the ground for perennial plants to grow, year after year.
That stands in contrast to vast farms of annual grains draining the ground of all nutrients, turning the soil to dust, and only propped up by petroleum-based fertilizers obtained from war-torn regions halfway around the world. Those grains are then fed to animals in feed lots, under horrid conditions, making sick animals, and sick people that eat those animals.
To my knowledge, all large-scale grain agriculture is destructive to the environment. And, the only true perma-culture includes animals in the mix, because key nutrients for the plants, such as Nitrogen, only come from animal sources. This is why petroleum -based fertilizers are used to support agriculture currently: Petroleum is liquefied dinosaurs. So, vegetarian solutions to the sustainability issue will always fall short, because they lack the key animal component in the natural cycle of soil preservation. That is my understanding, anyway.
Some will object to any consumption of animals, as immoral exploitation of those animals. I am a former vegan, and understand those feelings, as that was my motivation. However, the reality of the world seems to be that optimal human nutrition includes consumption of animals, and sustainable agriculture requires it. By purchasing local, pasture raised meat, you are providing a much better life for the animals, while preserving a sustainable ecology.
Of course, as a couple of people mentioned, hunting wild game is a great solution.
That is a great post, Tom Van. I personally don't agree with petroleum being from dinosaurs, but I agree with everything else you said 100%!
Sure, I understand that is not a technically correct statement, but I was trying to illustrate clearly that animals are a component in the cycle, and petroleum works as a (unsustainable) substitute, because it is decayed organic matter.
Thanks for the correction though. I should be more careful about what I say.
I've been eating a Paleo Diet almost all of my adult life (turning 26 in a few weeks).
Every now and then I'll have a cheat meal (beer, rice, chips, whatever) but it tends to make me a little sick and the insulin spike gives me an instant headache.
The main issue I've had that you might have experienced as well is Low Energy.
If you're doing jitz and you're experiencing this, there are 2 good workarounds:
1. Eat a little more fruit
2. Eat more fat
I basically never ate fruit but I decided to see how it would impact my energy levels for BJJ and the difference is too stark to ignore. A low glycemic fruit (apple, citrus, some berries) before practice does the trick, and it's hard to go overboard since even an apple tastes painfully sweet.
If you've been eating Paleo for a while, your body undergoes fat adaptation and begins to use fat as the primary energy source instead of carbs, so don't be shy with the grass fed butter, full fat meats, organs, coconut oil (or butter), etc.
Just my experience, hope it helps somebody! :-)
IMHO Paleo is heavily overrated. Attached is a video from Jon Hinds. Among other things, he is the founder of the Monkey Bar Gym, the Pan-am 2000 Brown Belt Champion, and owner of Lifeline Fitness. Lifeline makes the best training toys on the planet. Anyhow, nutrient rich is the way to go. Think of calories as a limited daily allowance of money. What do you get for them, what are you buying for them? How many nutrients? Approaching diet in this manner is the way to go if you ask me. Jon trained me and I'm a great trainer. My 2 cents.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSjBmn_cOpo
Thanks everyone for all of your inputs. I feel this a great discussion and we need to keep it going. Also Tom, it's good to put a face to the name that has been so helpful as I just watched MTS 38 and there you were haha. Everyone thank you again, I'm trying to switch my diet to something a lot more healthy than what it is. I know a couple people that have just started doing paleo, one is a huge crossfit freak and loves the diet and the other was a some what over weight gal and two weeks into she feels more energized and has lost like 11.5 pounds in two weeks. I'm just one of the people that goes all out when I find something new that interest me. I ask a lot of questions and do a lot of research, so I really appreciate all of these responses.
I wasn't trying to correct you bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Van
I personally don't believe that petroleum is from organic matter in any way, and instead I think it is a naturally occuring by product of the earth and all it's mechanics including mantle, molten core, tectonic plates, pressure, movement, minerals undergoing high pressure disintegration, etc. But that is something for another thread! LOL.
Oh, alright then. Well, I'm certainly no geologist, so that's possible. I thought that was the consensus though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurzy
Check these out: http://www.mikemahler.com/online-lib...egan-diet.html
www.nutrientrich.com http://www.thechinastudy.com/ http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/the-thrive-diet/
The bottom line is that, much unlike our paleolithic ancestors, we have access to everything. From grass fed Montana Buffalo to Japanese Chlorella algae, you can buy anything and everything under one roof these days. I have been working as an endurance/nutrition coach for a long time, and nothing has gotten results like Thrive. I know a handful of ultra-endurance athletes and bodybuilders who have had great success with high fat/ketone based diets, but those are only relevant towards very specific athletic goals. If you are an ultra-marathoner who essentially jogs 200 miles (like most of out ancestors did as hunters) then yes, it makes sense to have a ketone based metabolism. In MMA, you need to go anaerobic however, which means you need sugar on hand in your muscles (glycogen stores). Try to do a carb-starved diet and then explode, good luck. A cyclist I was training tried this, lost weight, felt great and had absolutely ZERO sprint to his legs because he was out of glycogen. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Food for thought (no pun intended).
I am glad Mr. Hinds found relief to his arthritis, and people should definitely do whatever works for them. It did sound to me from the video though that he didn't simply cut out animal products. It sounded like he cut out grains and processed foods as well. So, to me it seems hard to say that it was the cutting out the animal products that did it. Especially, since there are so many anecdotal accounts of people curing their arthritis symptoms using a Paleo diet, which includes grass fed and wild caught meats. It also sounded like he needs to consume so many fruits and vegetables to get adequate nutrition that he needs to liquefy his food. That is not surprising since he removed one of the most nutritionally dense foods on the planet from his diet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Wesley
Of course, that's great if it works, and it sounds like it does. So, people should go ahead and try it if they want. I just wanted to point out that it is not so easy to point the finger at "animal products". Pardon me if I got the wrong idea from that video.
Also, it seems like some people have the wrong idea, but a Paleo-type diet does not have to be ketogenic. You can get plenty of glucose from starchy foods: yams, sweet potatoes, bananas, etc. Many people that eat a Paleo diet prefer to take a ketogenic approach, but there is a very wide range. And, the correct approach definitely depends on the goals of the individual.
alright I'm officially lost, time to do more research!
True that, Erik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Wesley
Paleo isn't necessarily the optimal diet for hardcore athletes. In terms of mitigating disease and inflammation, life extension, mental acuity, and quality of life in the present tense (stable mood, high sex drive), something paleoish is hard to beat.
You're right on about glycogen depletion, and Robb Wolf recommends sweet potatoes/yams to restore muscle glyc, and I've found that the yams, plus the extra fruit to be more than enough to keep me energized, even for competition.
Also super important to optimize Vitamin D levels, which are directly related to testosterone levels.
All I know is that 98% of Vegetarians never get Cancer of any kind, and that the other 2% are smokers. "The China study" is a fascinating read. Not here to start a fight, I have just seen a million fad diets come and go over the years and it seems to me that Paleo is no different. What was the average lifespan of a Paleolithic hunter/gatherer? Have we learned nothing since? All food for thought. 3 things that I am POSITIVE about are 1) Chlorella supplementation 2) Maca root as a caffeine/energy drink replacement and 3) Cordyceps. Cordyceps is the crown jewel of Chinese medicine and is appropriately expensive as shit. When I was playing Rugby for Shanghai the old Mr. Miagi-esque Dr. would feed us that stuff and holy balls if it isn't awesome. As an adaptogen, it brings your systems into balance, either energizing, speeding recovery, stimulating or sedating depending on where you are. One never "has" to liquefy foods, but what can chew better as to make nutrients more bio-available, you or a vitamix? Jon Hinds is the only 49 year old I have seen who can do 1-armed handstand pushups, that much is for certain. As previously stated the concept, whether meat or not, I like to think of is as calories as money in a bank. What are you "buying" with those dollars? How many nutrients? What combination of foods maximizes that investment. Whatever is the highest, is the best.
I've started a new diet (about 1.5 weeks in) which is essentially paleo/ketogenic 6 days out of the week w/ a huge carb refeed day 1 per week. On the paleo/keto days, I'm staying under 50 grams of carbs and getting approx 350 grams of protein (2x bodyweight). I found that there was a limit to the amount of calories I could physically consume just through meals eating this way, so I've been getting an additional 1k or so calories/day from peanut butter. I find I need 3,500+ calories per day in order to have enough energy to get through my workouts and bjj.
On the 1 high carb refeed day, I'm eating around 800 grams of carbs and get 5000+ calories. The idea behind the refeed day is that long term ketogenic diets inhibit muscle growth and periodic carb spikes are necessary to replenish glycogen stores. Sounds bro sciency when I explain it, but I'm no nutrition expert. Info on the diet can be found here:
http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com
Results so far (1.5 weeks in): Loss 2 inches around my waist, gained 3 pounds of bodyweight, increased weight lifted in each workout session (so increased strength).
"The China Study", while an interesting read, is not scientific experiment. It is a book based on an observation. It has been thoroughly debunked by a number of individuals, but most thoroughly by uber-nerd and former vegan Denise Minger: http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
The life expectancy argument has been addressed by Eaton, Cordain, and Lindberg here: http://thepaleodiet.com/wp-content/u...ents-Paper.pdf
The fact that Mr. Hinds can do a one-armed handstand pushup, is not necessarily indicative of much more than the fact that Mr. Hinds is an exceptional athlete. Any case can be proven with one example. I could prove to you that smoking extends your life by finding a ninety-something year old smoker. But, we should not be interested in the outliers. We should be interested in the majority, and the majority of vegans are skinny and rather frail.
The money analogy that you mention is interesting and valid. Meat is of course extremely nutrient dense, and one of the few foods that you can survive on solely for an indefinite period of time. It is fairly uncontroversial that care must be taken on a vegan diet to obtain proper nutrition. Mr. Hinds himself stated that he was gaining fat and losing muscle until he made a conscious effort to diversify his food intake. I view this as a rather large negative, and evidence that the diet is sub-optimal. Not to mention that anyone concerned with choosing local seasonal foods would be hard pressed to thrive on such a diet, unless he lives in one of very few regions on Earth with weather capable of producing diverse produce year-round.
I do not want to turn this into a back-and-forth vegan vs paleo thing, but since at least a few people are looking to this thread for advice, I felt I needed to reply, lest someone think that T. Colin Campbell has actually proven that meat causes cancer. Like I mentioned briefly in a previous post, I maintained a strict vegan diet for a full year. My experience was rather negative, and I credit that diet with the mouthful of cavities that I gained in that time, where I had previously had healthy teeth all of my life. If anyone wants to try it, I say go for it, just do as Mr. Hinds does and be careful to eat as diverse a diet of fruits and vegetables as possible to maximize your nutrition.
Maybe try each approach for two months and see which one makes you feel the best.
I bought the Paleo Solution two days ago and I'm a little half way through it. I'm turned onto this diet as how I want to eat the rest of my life. I have yet to do the diet, but Mr. Wolf does a very good job breaking everything down listing a lot of facts on why this plan works and why being a vegan really doesn't. I have a lot of the same stomach problems Mr. Wolf describe in the beginning of the book and the same with my brother, who I will be turning the book onto once I'm done reading it, it's amazing on all the results as well. I know many vegans who actually put on a lot of weight and I now know what it's due too after just reading half of this book. No offense to Mr. Hinds or what he believes in but after watching that video and going over what he eats really turned me off of even wanting to try it. The fact that I can still eat meat, cut out gluten(grains), and gain muscle and loose stomach problems which has been describe to me a couple of RN's that I have issues with gluten is just awesome to me!
I have cut out all breads, wraps, crusts, crackers, rice, pasta and anything else I can think of, just for about a week now. I have also cut out sugars. I use honey for my coffee and I drink beer too, so thee are carbs there.
I have lost about 6 pounds, but that's also due to Jits I'm sure.
I was wondering: Where do bacon and eggs fit into this paleo menu?
I just ate two eggs and about 7 strips of bacon, so I am curious.
eggs are a staple of the diet. bacon should be organic and minimally processed.
I started an abridge paleo lifestyle by minimizing the carb intake not eliminating it thoroughly. I started in mid march and have lost twenty pounds. I do jiujitsu twice a week and before I had little to no energy during rolling, now I am able to hang with the guys that workout and train a lot more then me. Just for keeping tabs I started at 265lbs and now am at 241-244 depending on what time of day. The paleo lifestyle has worked for me.
I was a full vegan for a few months too, Tom. Even tried fruitarianism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Van
Results? No energy, no sex drive, no concentration, loss of muscle mass, felt like a bitch.
IMO paleo isn't a "diet" but it's actually our ancestral way of eating and no more a diet than a cheetah eating gazelle.
I have been doing it for a little over a week or so finally and I love it. I have not watched my weigh, but I generally feel a lot better as a whole already. I have not been to jits class due to time restraints and a nasty cold but I should be back next week, so I'm curious to see how the energy level will be.
Great post. The Paleo "diet" is totally natural, in my opinion. Even before I ever heard of it, a couple years ago I was dabbling in fasting, etc, and people thought I was nuts. (No food for 20 days)Quote:
Originally Posted by VicDorfman
I rationally explained that I think it's totally fucking nuts to think it's normal to eat a double big Mac combo with super sized fries and pop! Our ancestors never ate like that throughout history. They ate a handful of berries here and there, a small animal here and there, a large animal once in a while, etc, but primarily they were eating minimally but drinking a lot of water.
Anyways, I don't fast these days, because I'm not terribly overweight or anything, I just did it for detoxification on a cellular level. I haven't been to class for a week and a half (Have a cut I don't want to get infected) but I still ended up shedding another pound, yet no change on the beer intake!
My wife is getting frustrated here and there, because she forgets that I'm not eating a lot of the stuff she would normally use for dinner, so a few times we've ended up having a bowl of potatoes or rice that we have to pawn off on someone. lol. She's starting to remember now though. Yesterday she and the kids were craving a burger and fries, so I bought it for us for dinner. My burger was a double burger with extra veggies. I threw the bun in the garbage and ate teh stack of meat with a knife and fork. It was awesome. I didn't miss the bread at all.
This change in eating habits took about a week or two to get used to, but wow. I seriously have more energy, and I don't crave any bullshit like Doritos or Poutine or whatever.