http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...rugs-in-System
Wonder if this will set back legalization?
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...rugs-in-System
Wonder if this will set back legalization?
The death of this young man is not cool.
He had herb in his system?! Herb?! No not herb?!
Until I heard the news call Zimmerman a "white Hispanic" I just assumed he was a Jewish retiree based on his name and because this took place in Florida.
I can see where you would get that image.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Stager
zimmerman broke the law as soon as he started following that kid against police orders, the forensic audio experts all say that treyvon was screaming for help. and the governer and authors of the stand your ground law all agree that this law doesn't apply in this case. zimmerman has no legit defence. & weed is laughable ! he wanted to be a tough guy plus he has a previous arrest for assault on a cop. so he'll get plenty of time to see how tough he is. if theres any justice in this fucking country
TBH nobody really knows the facts so i don't think we are really in a position to make an informed opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme
the only person willing to tell the truth is dead. so we have the audio and that speaks for itself. perhaps your not fully informed & don't have a opinion but i've been following this case extremely closely. so my opinion is as informed as one can be with the current information available to the public. you can't start a fight, begin to loose that fight, then shoot kill someone and claim self defence !Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
zimmerman also testified that he thought treyvon was older as if that somehow made it right, that also further prooves he was profiling treyvon. along with the audio. and treyvon's cell record when he was talking to his girlfriend saying hes being followed by some dude. then the phone hit the ground & hung up, can someone say self incrimination.
He was not told to stop following him first off, he was told he didnt need to. So maybe your not following as closely as you think. Jus sayin. If there were a series of breakins in my neighborhood I would have followed him too. I am white tho so maybe Im racist and profile. Oh wait I dont give a fuck what color you are, If you look like a hoodrat in my area and there have been breakins better believe Ill be watchin your ass. Oh and did ya see what the witness that saw some of the incident said they saw? A black dude in a mounted position throwing punches "MMA Style" and then there was a pop. SO tell me if your mounted gettin beat regardless how it started what are you gonna do? Lay there and get beat?
There are facts. That is information. You can base your opinion on that information. Sounds like you can form an informed opinion based on the evidence we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
That's profiling bro. I understand where you're coming from. And who knows, maybe that kid WAS the one who was doing the break ins. Truth is, the kid was trouble and a wannabe thug type kid...just like a ton of most of us growing up. But dude with the gun got his balls from his gun. He started the problem and a kid is dead for it. At the very least he should get charged with manslaughter. That death was avoidable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Woolsey
He may have acted in self defense...I mean if you get your balls from a gun, then it's likely that you're a coward to begin with; so it's possible that Zimmerman really did fear for his life because he's a pussy. But the facts are the facts. He initiated the conflict. It backfired on him. A kid is dead over it. Now if your son went through a rebellious phase and was a trouble maker, I don't think you'd want him to get shot and killed. That's excessive. Try to put it in that perspective.
Zimmerman will beat the case though. I'm sure they did their jury selection well. And with the media influence treating young black kids as perrennial potential threats, I'm sure Zimmerman's lawyer will be able to paint a picture that the jury will empathize with because unfortunately humans are more emotional than rational. Logically, Zimmerman gets manslaughter because he broke the letter of the law. But playing on a jury's media influenced racially biased fears and emotions, Zimmerman walks. That's my prediction. Also Zimmerman's father is a retired judge so you better believe that Zimmerman is having strings pulled for him.
That's profiling bro. I understand where you're coming from. And who knows, maybe that kid WAS the one who was doing the break ins. Truth is, the kid was trouble and a wannabe thug type kid...just like a ton of most of us growing up. But dude with the gun got his balls from his gun. He started the problem and a kid is dead for it. At the very least he should get charged with manslaughter. That death was avoidable.
Agreed, totally avoidable he should have stayed in his car & none of this would have happened. But he had big balls with his gun. Im not sayin what he did was right in any way, he is prolly not the sharpest tool in the shed lol. There was no need for him to confront martin but he did and from that point it was a fight for life prolly for both individuals. Im sorry to say but I do profile be it the way I grew up or my extreme paranoia from PTSD. If it looks like a duck & walks like a duck its a duck to me.:cool:
It is not against the law to disobey a 911 operator. Nor is it against the law to follow or confront someone in a non violent manner. If you wanna argue about the legal aspects then talk about use of excessive force. The other points are moot
yupQuote:
Originally Posted by brent_littell
Man, I grew up in a lot of different environments. In every environment there is a way people dress and act. So you tend to associate that appearance with the behavior you witnessed. But in every environment not everyone who dresses a certain way, IS a certain way. That's logic. But I'm human too bro. I profile people too. It's hard not to. The way I get around that is just to trust my instincts. I try to sense people's vibes (check their non verbal cues) because appearances can be deceiving. So yeah, don't hate yourself for being normal, just don't let that profiling lead you to a situation like Zimmerman's. Even on a small scale, don't let that profiling influence how you treat people. Whether they're wearing hoodies and tims or a business suit, treat everyone how you'd want to be treated. And if they give a bad vibe, avoid em. You know?
It's a shame that this kid is dead. But it's also a shame that Zimmerman is being prosecuted for murder.
That's why I'm saying; Not murder...but it should be considered manslaughter. That death could've been avoided. Sure Zimmerman may have acted in self defense once the situation escalated, but he initiated the conflict. Bottom line, the kid didn't have to die. And unfortunately, racial profiling was the catalyst. But he's gonna walk anyway. I just hope there aren't any riots. There are racially irrational people on both sides of the fence. I wish people were more objective about it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_littell
Truth is, Trayvon WAS a troubled kid. Those on Trayvon's side of pure innocence need to acknowledge that. But Zimmerman started the conflict that resulted in an unnecessary death. People on Zimmerman's side need to acknowledge that. Both sides were wrong. But someone died over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent_littell
I personally think if you can't subdue someone without shooting them dead, then you probably shouldn't be following them through a neighborhood in the first place like you're billy bad ass.
According to this article Martin was mounted on him and throwing punches "MMA style" when Zimmerman shot him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell C
http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnes...ry?id=16371852
Exactly his point. If you can't subdue someone without a gun, you shouldn't go following them around. With his ridiculous 911 call records (like calling the cops because kids were playing outside), we can deduce that the guy just loved to look for trouble. This time he found it and a kid is dead because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Ehrnreiter
Neither one of them is a saint. But only one of them pulled a trigger irresponsibly. Zimmerman needs to be punished.
Bottom line...no one has all the facts and the full story, so all we can do is examine what we do know. Unfortunately, this whole case and verdict was already made by the public before it all come to light. Both S & V made mistakes that night. Like Brent said, it's not against the law to disobey a 911 operator because it's not a "Lawful" order; merely a recommendation based on best practices. Now you have to look at self defense in a different light in this situation...a concealed weapon was involved. If you are in a physical confrontation and you have a concealed weapon on you, that weapon has the ability to be taken from you and used against you. This turns ANY physical confrontation into a lethal situation. Each states laws will determine the extent of how this will be viewed in court. From a law enforcement perspective (which is why you should never touch a LEO), being armed and having a weapon exposed makes any physical confrontation a lethal force authorized event. It's up to the officer at that point to make a judgement call as to how to handle the situation...did they truly feel their lives were in immediate danger. But like I said, everyone made mistakes that night, did he have to die...is it murder or manslaughter? Don't know...I don't know all the facts. Just understand that circumstances will change the way we behave and it's all about how you can articulate what happened. All I know is that me, by myself, will react completely differently than me with my family around...circumstances changed the way I will behave and react.
WOW! at least you can admit to your ignorant racist perspective. it's so disgusting that so many white people put blinders on & ignore the fact that 2 different audio analyst say treyvon's voice was screaming for help, & this so called witness just now came forward when other witnesses say it was too dark too see the scuffle, sounds like the zimmerman's are paying fantom witnesess out of that 200 grand. & you assume treyvon was a thug just because he wore a hoodie, ok then burn any 10 th planet hoodie, you have or your a thug & should get shot. on the 911 call zimmerman said his hands are in in his waist. duh ! retard every hoodie known to man has forward pockets and when you use them it looks like your hands are in your waist, the saddest part is if treyvon was white & zimmerman was black, this wouldn't be an issue because he would have been aressted that nite. the 911 operator said "we don't need you to that" to say that justified zimmerman to follow him is like trying to squweez water from a rock to justify murder, should treyvon have been better suited to let zimmerman profile harrass & beat on him. did treyvon not have the right to defend himself against a armed unknown assailant ? the only person defending himself was treyvon period. but i guess black people don't have the right to defend themselves against white attackersQuote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Woolsey
& brandon your little comment about hoodrat's further shows your ignorance. hoodrat is a term for loose or slutty girls. not thugs, if your gonna profile people at least do it right. it's this white is right attitude that's so gross, & right after zimmerman killed treyvon here in tulsa 2 white dudes said hey lets shoot some black people too. and they went around shooting black people for fun. & killed 3 people just walking down the street just like treyvon was. when my car broke down i had to walk so that could have easily been me. gunned down 10th planet hoodie & all, but i'm black & my 10th planet hoodie makes me a thug so no big deal.
Derrick, Brandon is not racist. He admitted to profiling regardless of color. Most people do. It's instinctive.
Also, you're being blinded by the race issue. Yes, Zimmerman racially profiled. But that's not THE issue. The issue is Trayvon's death. Was it or was it not justified?
Let's use cars. These are deadly objects that most adults have, right? So you get road rage and start following a guy. The guy gets sick of being followed and gets out the car to beat your ass at a stop light. He drags you out of the car, and starts beating you down. You finally escape the beat down get into your car and intentionally run him over. Who's to blame?
Derrick, Trayvon was no saint. The proof is out that he was a wanna be thug type kid. Pretty normal for a kid that age regardless of color. Even if the witness (which I also find suspicious since he came forward without wanting to be identified like 2 months later...and that's not even getting to the reliability of eye witness accounts in high stress situations)....but even if the witness was right, and Trayvon was getting the better of Zimmerman, it doesn't change that Zimmerman caused the confrontation.
And Trayvon could've mounted and started punching Zimmerman in self defense.
With Zimmerman's history of being a trouble seeker, and evidence that he racially profiled Martin, I can't see anyway that Zimmerman is in the clear. It's not a clear case of self defense. It's case of a trouble maker killing someone because the situation that THEY started got out of control.
Look at things objectively Derrick. Otherwise, you're just as racist as the ones you accuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme
You're from OK bro. The rest of the world doesn't have the same slang rules. Up here you can call any person hoodrat, regardless of color. Down there I guess it's the same thing. YOU"re the one showing your ignorance and you're blinded by racial bias. Chill my dude. I understand that OK is very racist. Doesn't mean all white people are. Slow down and take a breather bro.
i don't think all white people are racist, just a very large number are. especially in the south. theres racist shit happening here that the rest of the country never heres about, as a kid i grew up with downtown klu klux klan rallies wondering if they were gonna come burn my house down like they did to so many in the past. talk about terrorist groups. black people have been living with terrorism for a long time, most white people don't know what it's like to grow up with that fear. and thats good, but black america is a completely different experience and black people are fed up, tired of being victimised, and we just want equal justice nothing more or less. the black panthers never killed a single white person and the feds were all over them. but were was the government when the klan hung black people for laughs. how can one group be considered terrorist and the group that's killing people isn't, that oddQuote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
I agree with you bro. Being black in America isn't easy. I don't think most white people are intentionally racist. I think most white people are human. And for some reason humans fear or ridicule what's different. All races are prejudiced to eachother. And yeah, there has been a ton of pardoned crimes toward black people. But you let those feelings out on the wrong person. B. Woolsey isn't a racist. Admitting that he profiles just means that admits that he judges books by its cover. Most people do. At least he's honest. That's not racist. He doesn't wanna kill you for being black.
I'm sorry that you have to deal with such extreme racism down there bro. I hope one day we can get past that. Right now justice goes to the highest bidder and those with badges. The injustice breaks my heart. I hope Trayvon's killer serves his time, but I doubt it's going to happen.
Just so that I understand where you are comin from derrick, do you consider Zimmerman white? Also, you dont know me so to jump so quickly to assumptions you may want to look at yourself.:cool:
are people still freaking out over this?....way to kick a dead dog
Yeah....I didn't really mean to start all of this. I just didn't know that Trayvon had THC in his system and was wondering its effects on the legalization effort. My bad guys.
zimmerman is not white he's white & latino but so many white peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Woolsey
are ignoring the facts like the 2 independent audio forensic sientist both saying theres no way it was zimmerman screeming for help. that on top of all the audio evidence clearly shows that zimmerman was the aggresor. so for the prosecution it's pretty open and shut. the defence only has slander tactics like uh he was suspended for weed ! lol laughable. & all this evidence will be used in court. & i don't see how anyone on that jury who's an actual human. will hear that kid screeming for help. & then a shot execution style & not feel there skin crawl & do the right thing. fact zimmerman was arested for assault on a cop, and his daddy being a judge got him off, and his daddy being a judge is why the cops tried to cover this up. the media tries hard to slander a victims name & treyvon doesn't even have a arrest record. & if he did thats all the media would talk about. as for my assumption you do racist shit and put the " i'm not racist disclaimer " it doesn't work like that. one is judged by there actions. & it's not even your fault. there are plenty of people who are racist and don't know it. i had friends in college that would say hey that's derrick my "black friend" & i said yo that's fucked up why can't i just be your friend why the label. i just have friends with no catagories. not black, white, latino, or asian just my friends period no catagories , & and my college friends never could understand why i just stopped hanging with them & only hung with other black people
Zimmermans injuries are consistent with his story. Regardless if he followed him or once Trayvon attacked him he had the right defend himself. The real tragedy and what most people are overlooking is that a 17 year old kid is dead.
Besides there is a witness that says Zimmerman was the one screaming out for help and the police report backs his story that Trayvon was on top of him and slamming his head into the ground. Trayvons own father said it wasn't his son yelling for help and his mother called it an accident. He was also never told not to stop following him, the dispatcher recommended that he not follow him and just go wait for the police.
He will get off just as he should. We all forget that everyday in this country blacks are killing blacks left and right and that never makes the news. This is national headlines because its a "white on black crime." Since then there have been numerous stories of black people attacking white people in the name of Trayvon.
The media grabbed a hold of this story and painted Zimmerman out to be a complete piece of shit when in fact he might not actually be that bad of a guy. Just an over zealous jack off that was over his head in being in charge of the neighborhood watch.
Thank you for clearing it up, you are racist and because you are black you feel it's your right and that your not racist everyone else is. Congratz you solved the problem derrick
How do you know if you can or cannot subdue someone till you try to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell C
This is not a black and white issue. It really pisses me off that people keep trying to turn it into one.Quote:
Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme
You can't instigate an altercation and call it self defense. It's manslaughter.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickL
The news picked this up because the altercation stemmed from racial profiling and because the deceased kids father started a campaign.
Whether the kid were white or black, Zimmerman is a piece of shit. This guy was a self appointed neighborhood watch who made ridiculous calls to the cops for things as petty as kids playing outside "unattended.". He racially profiled a kid. After being followed, yes tray on attacked him out of anger. But that doesn't green light the right to use deadly force. It's still manslaughter.
He might not be that bad of a guy? He picks a fight, kills a kid, because he looked like an everyday black kid? And he might not be that much of a bad guy?
It's sad that people are being blinded by race. Neither one of them was a saint, but Zimmerman started it and killed a kid in the process. Those are the facts. If my kid got killed by some over zealous trigger happy nutcase bastard, I'd want justice too.
What made him think that it was a good idea to look for trouble? Simple. He had courage from a gun that he was dying to use. That's not self defense. That's baiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sheridan
Since it seems no one read my previous post, let's use cars instead of guns and road rage instead of racial profiling.
So you get road rage and start following a guy. The guy gets sick of being followed and gets out the car to beat your ass at a stop light. He drags you out of the car, and starts beating you down. You finally escape the beat down get into your car and intentionally run him over. Is that self defense? No. Vehicular manslaughter.
You can't bait someone, kill them, then say its self defense. Zimmerman used deadly force to escape a situation he created.
So if your statement is correct. Any 10th Planet guy with Jiu-Jitsu under his belt, would be guilty of baiting as well. In my old line of work, carrying a gun was back up or insurance. Nothing more, nothing less.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
David,
Bad example and big difference. In your example, the guy has escaped the situation. Is no longer in any danger, and then decides to run the guy over.
He was not mounted and being pummeled when he used deadly force.
Was Zimmerman in any way trained, or was he just a dick with a gun and an ex judge for a daddy? And if a 10th planet guy was purposely following a kid in hopes to get into trouble, then yes, he'd be baiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sheridan
Sure it's not a perfect example, but the comparison is close. Zimmerman used his gun as a means of escape. And in the example, even if running over the assailant was accidental, he'd still get charged with manslaughter where the car was his means of escape.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sheridan
He caused the altercation and used deadly force to escape it. It's not justified. Fuck race. Use facts. Zimmerman does not have clean hands in this matter.