Masters division?

What do you guys think of it? Is the competition gonna be easier? or harder? If so why not compete at adult? Is there a smaller risk for injury?

I used to think that as long as you feel you can win the adult div, at any age, you should enter and try. Some big tournaments wont even have this div. for that reason. If you can't hang any more, time to move on. Im not saying that there shouldn't be a masters div as i will hopefully need it. I just think your kind of admitting to yourself that, in one way or another, you've either lost a step, or there is too great of a risk for injury playing with the kids.

I also completely believe that the winner of this div. could be the best grappler in the building.

The regular adult division is for those who want the glory and the pride of the victory. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But there's also nothing wrong with competing because you enjoy competition and don't want to risk the injuries that come from playing with the young bucks at their pace.

Consider this: if Rickson Gracie enters the Masters division at the Pan Ams and wins, who has the best Jiu Jitsu at the tournament? Him or the winner of the adult division?

Not sure. They should grapple to find out.

Its hard for a young guy like yourself, Bobby and you other wiper snappers to talk or understand about things you haven't experience yet.

Getting old!!! Less testosterone, slower metabolism, and the aches & pains. ect., ect. I could go on & on. Yes, you will lose a step, and You will know it. That's why your going to keep seeing more older athletes using testosterone & hgh.

Jiu Jitsu keeps growing in numbers & demographics. Most people who participate in BJJ, do it as hobby. They're not looking to be World Champions. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to compete on a kind of equal playing ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge

Its hard for a young guy like yourself, Bobby and you other wiper snappers to talk or understand about things you haven't experience yet.

Getting old!!! Less testosterone, slower metabolism, and the aches & pains. ect., ect. I could go on & on. Yes, you will lose a step, and You will know it. That's why your going to keep seeing more older athletes using testosterone & hgh.

Jiu Jitsu keeps growing in numbers & demographics. Most people who participate in BJJ, do it as hobby. They're not looking to be World Champions. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to compete on a kind of equal playing ground.

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Hey man, Bobby IS old.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Not sure. They should grapple to find out.

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Perfect answer. Or is it?

Does the winner of a tournament necessarily have the best jiu jitsu?

What is Jiu Jitsu anyway?

Mccaghren has hit the green hard today ;)


The real question my brother, what isn't Jiu Jitsu?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack LaBarge

Its hard for a young guy like yourself, Bobby and you other wiper snappers to talk or understand about things you haven't experience yet.

Getting old!!! Less testosterone, slower metabolism, and the aches & pains. ect., ect. I could go on & on. Yes, you will lose a step, and You will know it. That's why your going to keep seeing more older athletes using testosterone & hgh.

Jiu Jitsu keeps growing in numbers & demographics. Most people who participate in BJJ, do it as hobby. They're not looking to be World Champions. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to compete on a kind of equal playing ground.

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Just cause Im hangin on a pole, people think Im a kid:) I pretty much still am.. Anyway im about to be 32, and yeah man it hurts and I see it only multiplying exponentially in the near future. But as of the moment I can still choke those quick lil bastards and I know it. When im 36 this might be a different story, and there is no shame in that. I never knocked masters as it has its proper place.

Fact is training has been my lifestyle for my adult life in one form or another and it has kept me young. This is often the case. But there is also a counter effect. Hard mileage. I guarantee you my joints dont feel young, or my lungs.

I think you should have a choice, to be able to compete in adult or masters division. Im 31, so I have to compete in masters, and the biggest complaint I have is that oftentimes there are only a couple people in my division, so I end up only having one or two matches. Im a small guy, and not a lot of people in the masters divisions are in my weight class, and its really a bummer when you train hard for a competition and when you get there you realize its just you and one other guy. Almost all the guys at my gym are younger than me, and I have no problem holding my own against these young "whipper snappers." I think it would be nice if I could compete in the adult division if I choose to.

Zogs the perfect example of overcoming shit and still being a badass. He had to adapt, part of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jams16

I think you should have a choice, to be able to compete in adult or masters division. Im 31, so I have to compete in masters, and the biggest complaint I have is that oftentimes there are only a couple people in my division, so I end up only having one or two matches. Im a small guy, and not a lot of people in the masters divisions are in my weight class, and its really a bummer when you train hard for a competition and when you get there you realize its just you and one other guy. Almost all the guys at my gym are younger than me, and I have no problem holding my own against these young "whipper snappers." I think it would be nice if I could compete in the adult division if I choose to.

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Really? They wont let you? I always compete adult and plan too.

I would kill to be almost 32. lol

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Zogs the perfect example of overcoming shit and still being a badass. He had to adapt, part of it.

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Zog is a killer, no doubt. But he's been a killer for a long time. He was a killer before he got old. :)

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

The real question my brother, what isn't Jiu Jitsu?

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So good.

Zog, would you say you're more or less deadly now?

+1 for the old guys. I need to go to work on Monday to feed my family, but still want to learn from competition.

Between 29-33 years old should be your prime for combat sports becuase your smarter and not fired and unaimed like a 21 yr old. So I would do both if they let you so there is no question who is the best if you win both.

I have been competing back and forth in Masters and Adult divisions for the last five years (since I turned 30, which more or less coincided with my first tournament), and here's my take:

- In Adults you are likely to get more people in your bracket and they obviously will be younger and, more often than not, faster than the guys in Masters. The trade-off is strength. The guys in Adult, especially the ones in their early 20's, don't typically have the full-body strength of the older guys. It's not that they're not strong, it's just that oftentimes they haven't figured out how to best utilize and manage their growing body yet. Practically speaking, what this has meant for me is that the Adults can outpace me and scramble much faster than me, but if I can get my hands on them, I'm probably going to manhandle them physically (just talking about strength vs strength here; technique obviously varies guy-to-guy).

- In Masters, the inverse is true. The guys tend to be slower... and what's more important, they KNOW it, so their approach is usually more thought-out and specific. You don't get a lot of dudes in Masters whose general plan is "just get in there, fling myself around, see what happens." Instead, you get guys who know what their limitations are and work very diligently to avoid them. On top of that, the strength difference, in my experience, has been nothing short of alarming. I know we've all heard of "old man strength," and when we're young we scoff at the notion, but let me tell you little fuckers what -- that's for real. It's life's tribulations manifested into physicality. To a man, the strongest guys I have ever grappled with were in Masters divisions. You don't know what strength is until you've been grabbed by a dude who spends his weekdays wrangling his three sons.

There's an extra dimension to this conversation worth mentioning -- the skill level at Masters has the potential to be WAY higher than Adult, especially at the lower belt levels. Now of course you can have a prodigy like Ant who is a fucking killer at 18, but more often than not, if you're in a Blue Belt Adult division you are looking at guys who have been training for a few years, max. But in Masters, you get these dudes who have been blue belts for 8, 9 years, but who changed jobs, had kids, got deployed, whatever... point being, as you get older life happens, and for some of these guys it interrupts training and delays promotions. Which is fine... like I said, that's life. But a 7 year Blue Belt with Dad Strength is not the same as a whip-quick 21 year-old who just got his Blue Belt.

So that's my take. I've won tournaments in both Adult and Masters and gotten fucking shellacked in both as well. Nowadays it just comes down to what sort of shape I feel I'm in and what kind of experience I am looking to have: If I want fewer matches but each of them to feel like getting run over by a truck, I do Masters. If my cardio is up and I want to throw someone around (assuming I can catch them), then I do Adults.

To each his own, though.

The Aristocrats.

Perfect. Thanks David.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Zog, would you say you're more or less deadly now?

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Psh whether he's more or less deadly, he's still friggin deadly. Haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David 'Lo Pan' Callaham

I have been competing back and forth in Masters and Adult divisions for the last five years (since I turned 30, which more or less coincided with my first tournament), and here's my take:

- In Adults you are likely to get more people in your bracket and they obviously will be younger and, more often than not, faster than the guys in Masters. The trade-off is strength. The guys in Adult, especially the ones in their early 20's, don't typically have the full-body strength of the older guys. It's not that they're not strong, it's just that oftentimes they haven't figured out how to best utilize and manage their growing body yet. Practically speaking, what this has meant for me is that the Adults can outpace me and scramble much faster than me, but if I can get my hands on them, I'm probably going to manhandle them physically (just talking about strength vs strength here; technique obviously varies guy-to-guy).

- In Masters, the inverse is true. The guys tend to be slower... and what's more important, they KNOW it, so their approach is usually more thought-out and specific. You don't get a lot of dudes in Masters whose general plan is "just get in there, fling myself around, see what happens." Instead, you get guys who know what their limitations are and work very diligently to avoid them. On top of that, the strength difference, in my experience, has been nothing short of alarming. I know we've all heard of "old man strength," and when we're young we scoff at the notion, but let me tell you little fuckers what -- that's for real. It's life's tribulations manifested into physicality. To a man, the strongest guys I have ever grappled with were in Masters divisions. You don't know what strength is until you've been grabbed by a dude who spends his weekdays wrangling his three sons.

There's an extra dimension to this conversation worth mentioning -- the skill level at Masters has the potential to be WAY higher than Adult, especially at the lower belt levels. Now of course you can have a prodigy like Ant who is a fucking killer at 18, but more often than not, if you're in a Blue Belt Adult division you are looking at guys who have been training for a few years, max. But in Masters, you get these dudes who have been blue belts for 8, 9 years, but who changed jobs, had kids, got deployed, whatever... point being, as you get older life happens, and for some of these guys it interrupts training and delays promotions. Which is fine... like I said, that's life. But a 7 year Blue Belt with Dad Strength is not the same as a whip-quick 21 year-old who just got his Blue Belt.

So that's my take. I've won tournaments in both Adult and Masters and gotten fucking shellacked in both as well. Nowadays it just comes down to what sort of shape I feel I'm in and what kind of experience I am looking to have: If I want fewer matches but each of them to feel like getting run over by a truck, I do Masters. If my cardio is up and I want to throw someone around (assuming I can catch them), then I do Adults.

To each his own, though.

The Aristocrats.

---

Wisdom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David 'Lo Pan' Callaham

I have been competing back and forth in Masters and Adult divisions for the last five years (since I turned 30, which more or less coincided with my first tournament), and here's my take:

- In Adults you are likely to get more people in your bracket and they obviously will be younger and, more often than not, faster than the guys in Masters. The trade-off is strength. The guys in Adult, especially the ones in their early 20's, don't typically have the full-body strength of the older guys. It's not that they're not strong, it's just that oftentimes they haven't figured out how to best utilize and manage their growing body yet. Practically speaking, what this has meant for me is that the Adults can outpace me and scramble much faster than me, but if I can get my hands on them, I'm probably going to manhandle them physically (just talking about strength vs strength here; technique obviously varies guy-to-guy).

- In Masters, the inverse is true. The guys tend to be slower... and what's more important, they KNOW it, so their approach is usually more thought-out and specific. You don't get a lot of dudes in Masters whose general plan is "just get in there, fling myself around, see what happens." Instead, you get guys who know what their limitations are and work very diligently to avoid them. On top of that, the strength difference, in my experience, has been nothing short of alarming. I know we've all heard of "old man strength," and when we're young we scoff at the notion, but let me tell you little fuckers what -- that's for real. It's life's tribulations manifested into physicality. To a man, the strongest guys I have ever grappled with were in Masters divisions. You don't know what strength is until you've been grabbed by a dude who spends his weekdays wrangling his three sons.

There's an extra dimension to this conversation worth mentioning -- the skill level at Masters has the potential to be WAY higher than Adult, especially at the lower belt levels. Now of course you can have a prodigy like Ant who is a fucking killer at 18, but more often than not, if you're in a Blue Belt Adult division you are looking at guys who have been training for a few years, max. But in Masters, you get these dudes who have been blue belts for 8, 9 years, but who changed jobs, had kids, got deployed, whatever... point being, as you get older life happens, and for some of these guys it interrupts training and delays promotions. Which is fine... like I said, that's life. But a 7 year Blue Belt with Dad Strength is not the same as a whip-quick 21 year-old who just got his Blue Belt.

So that's my take. I've won tournaments in both Adult and Masters and gotten fucking shellacked in both as well. Nowadays it just comes down to what sort of shape I feel I'm in and what kind of experience I am looking to have: If I want fewer matches but each of them to feel like getting run over by a truck, I do Masters. If my cardio is up and I want to throw someone around (assuming I can catch them), then I do Adults.

To each his own, though.

The Aristocrats.

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+1

One major advantage to Masters is there are usually less matches. When i was in my 20's and healthy this would of seemed ludacris as the more matches i got the better. But at 35 with a busted up knee and waning testosterone I know it would be difficult for me to go 6 or 7 matches deep and still be firing on all cylinders. its a good way for older guys to compete with other guys their own age an weight and not have to worry about losing because of gasing.

Personally if i lose in a tourny i want it to be because i made a mistake with my jitz...not because I got out cardioed in my 8th match by a 20 year old wrestler with no job who trains 24/7.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Zog, would you say you're more or less deadly now?

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Its a matter of perspective:

The major differences:
(Younger Me) youth, durability, explosiveness and mind set, confidence.
VS.
(Now) experience, patience, technique, flow and most importantly awareness.



Injures and all I take me now, but I for sure would pull fucking guard in an instant! ;)

Well depends on what tourny also bc at naga i had go against black and browns that are instructors with at least 15 yrs of ju jitsu..in adult you get guys who are blues or purples with cpl of yrs of jitz.... yes master is man strength and adult more matches....at ibjjf events adult is harder bc more matches and cardio but your naga or local tourny it just a trade off...im 37 with 2 yrs of bjj i compete at advance and black belt adult or master ..injuries suck and all but cardio is your own fualt bc you can get better cardio if u train...

I'm about to be 37, and I do the masters division from time to time because I know the 20 somethings can handle the adult divisions. It also helps when it comes to the overall team trophy at bigger tournaments.