Why isn't lockdown used more in MMA + sub grappling?

Throwing this question out there because I don't train at a 10th Planet school, but obviously study the techniques. I'm really the only person at my school who uses a lockdown consistently and find a enough success w/it to the pt where I'll jump 1/2 guard, lockdown + sweep when I get frustrated w/handfighting. Was watching Brandon Vera get worked while Shogun was in his 1/2 guard and wondered why I almost never see lockdowns used. One notebale exception was rd 1 of Silva vs Sonnen 2. Silva controlled Sonnen's ground+pound for almost 4 mins using lockdown.

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Originally Posted by RayLie

Throwing this question out there because I don't train at a 10th Planet school, but obviously study the techniques. I'm really the only person at my school who uses a lockdown consistently and find a enough success w/it to the pt where I'll jump 1/2 guard, lockdown + sweep when I get frustrated w/handfighting. Was watching Brandon Vera get worked while Shogun was in his 1/2 guard and wondered why I almost never see lockdowns used. One notebale exception was rd 1 of Silva vs Sonnen 2. Silva controlled Sonnen's ground+pound for almost 4 mins using lockdown.

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I still do not see it used a ton. But, I do see it used a hell of a lot more than say 3 or 4 years ago. They're coming around! I assume most of the high level guys are kinda stuck in their ways (which may not be a bad thing). I bet you'll see a lot of the newer guys in the upcoming years start to use it more and more. Just my opinion...

They dont know................. Thats it,,,,,,,,, they dont know.................................. and and if they did ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmnot good enough.......................

Lockdown half is the tree trunk of my personal style.

I like playing a game that immobilizes opponents.

What top game thrives when the bottom guy has perfect under hooks lockdown?

No game.

The Electric chair is a very high percentage sweep with a pass included. Prolly more electric chairs in comp by 10p heads than any other sweep.

Don't sleep on ankle sleeves #powerful :)

there afraid of the Indian death lock.

Got in a major argument on facebook about the half guard game in MMA... It got fucking ridiculous lol Gotta love the MMA mentality in NZ it's rather funny

Like someone already said, they just don't know. I mean, they might be aware, but they don't KNOW it. As in, they don't practice it. So they don't know how effective it is. I mean, a legs only lockdown saved Silva for a good deal of the first round.

I think the problem is that it's common practice to be on your side. Lockdown requires you to be flat on your back. Another problem is that I think they know the importance of the double underhooks. Like the whole time Anderson had his legs wrapped, I'm shouting for him to secure double unders. Mir had a similar problem. He wrapped up Brock Lesnar's leg, but he didn't use double unders to prevent getting punched, and neither Mir or Silva whipped up at ALL!!

I mean, securing the lockdown is step one for defense. But in my opinion, the whole lockdown series is way more offensive than defensive. It's a great defense. The guy can't land any power shots. But once you whip up, that's where the magic happens. You have so many options. And it keeps the other guy off balance so much that they're forced to defend, otherwise they're getting swept. But wait, there's more! The series has a response for pretty much every defense. Pressure in? Electric chair. Don't get the whizzer? I'll take your back. Base? Old school. Or dogfight. And so on and so on.

People are slowly catching on though. For years people kept barking about how we don't have champions, and it's ineffective. But it's still a relatively young system. Right now we're seeing a little rubber guard, twisters and trucks being used in the UFC. And a couple lockdowns. Give it time. Just like the front snap kick that Anderson used...once people see it's effective, everyone will want to use it.

I think without a large amount of experience, the lockdown can lack a bit of mobility. The lockdown in MMA is great for those with weak ground games that want to stall or neutralize ground and pound. Anderson Silva showed this against Sonnen when he held lockdown for a whole round and took very minimal damage. It is a bit disheartening that there hasn't been an aggressive lockdown player in MMA. How is deep half used more in MMA than lockdown? Makes no sense to me.

I would say the sweatiness and people not able to execute the whip up are the biggest reasons.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

I would say the sweatiness and people not able to execute the whip up are the biggest reasons.

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I'd say it's a lack of understanding of the whip up. It's like the closed guard. You generally don't go from closed guard to sweep/submission. You go from closed guard to open guard (even if momentarily) to set up the sub/sweep. Same with lockdown. It's generally not lockdown to submission. It starts with the lockdown to secure your control. But the whip up is where the fun begins.

If you think about it, when you whip up and get on your side, it's pretty much like traditional half in the sense that you're on your side with more options. But IMO, once you're on your side while still holding a lockdown, you're in a way better position than traditional half.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

But wait, there's more!

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Can I get TWO 10th Planet Lockdowns for the price of one????

I think the main reason is that people feel that if you have a really good top guy you will get stuck under him. This is death for two reasons. 1 Brock vs Frank and 2nd the judges in that position will give it to the top position every time. :(

I don't know the answer but I remember Frank Mir using the lock down in his second fight with Brock Lesnar, but not with much success. Though I don't think he was using the double under hooks, maybe because he wasn't able to get them? I'm interested in hearing what you guys think he should have or could have done in that situation. Should he have transitioned to another position? Lesnar said he would put his training partners in that position and they would escape. Not sure if he was referring to the first or second round though. Thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWW6yhfAnpw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHzU1sw8cgA
Skip to 1:00 mentions his guys get out of that position

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heeNynUDbBA&feature=relmfu
Found this, Frank gives some of his thoughts on why he lost to Lesnar. Around 1:20

http://mmahits.com/fighters/brock-le...r-fight-video/
-link to both rounds

I believe the reason most traditional BJJ practitioners don't believe the lockdown works (and therefore don't use it) is because it uses a different style of hip movement.

With traditional half guard you put your foot on the ground to create hip movement and the space you need to work.

With the Lockdown, we use the 2-on-1 to manipulate the opponent's leg and we believe it is the lack of space (clinch) that gives us an opportunity to work.

The misunderstanding of the hip movement is why most traditional practitioners don't use and teach the Lockdown, which is why their students don't use it.

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Originally Posted by Eugene Kopacz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heeNynUDbBA&feature=relmfu
Found this, Frank gives some of his thoughts on why he lost to Lesnar. Around 1:20

http://mmahits.com/fighters/brock-le...r-fight-video/
-link to both rounds

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I was just about to refer them to this vid. It's a good watch.

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Originally Posted by Nat Cummings

Can I get TWO 10th Planet Lockdowns for the price of one????

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No, but the lockdown does come with a variety of attacks for FREE!

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Originally Posted by Art "ART OF WAR" Belarde

I think the main reason is that people feel that if you have a really good top guy you will get stuck under him. This is death for two reasons. 1 Brock vs Frank and 2nd the judges in that position will give it to the top position every time. :(

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I'm not a pro fighter. I'm only a white belt so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But Mir wasn't using the lockdown correctly. If I have a lockdown without double unders, I'm fighting for the double unders. If I'm not able to get to the double unders, there are a ton of options. That being said, Mir's strategy to just hold the lockdown while getting pummeled can't be referred to as an accurate depiction of the lockdown.

I would toss in two ideas:

(1) being a small guy with long legs I definitely prefer to use butterfly or half-butterfly, especially since opponents are usually OBSESSED with taking the under hook. But guys with a really good base are tough to deal with having just the hooks, but double-unders lockdown works on virtually everybody.

(2) even if you understand lockdown half it still requires a fair amount of time and reps to get your body in sync to execute a good-quality whip up. Most chumps don't put in the work