Love seeing the sport evolve before our eyes.
Printable View
Love seeing the sport evolve before our eyes.
I always thought Judo was underrepresented in MMA. I don't think it will be the go-to art for takedowns in MMA for a while. Wrestling is still a much more common art in the US and judo will always be less accessible. Plus, I think many fighters will be nervous about exposing their back, which is a risk off a failed judo throw.
Hopefully, the Eddie Bravo of judo emerges.
I always thought judo was the #1 way to take people down....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Matthews
There are only a select number of throws that expose your back during throws in Judo as in Wrestling. The majority of the throws in Judo do not expose the back.
Whoever she fights next better practice 10,000 arm bar escapes per day.
I think wrestling can trump judo. It's why you don't see much of any successful judo players in the UFC. You can shoot a double leg from distance whereas in judo you must be in the clinch to get it. To be honest I don't think women's MMA has much competition in terms of competitors and a judo Olympic medalist is taking advantage of that.
I'm pretty sure Kaufman did that.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyDeschner
You used to hear people say if you want to fight MMA you need to study Kick Boxing, Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling. Now maybe Judo will have to be something everyone is familiar with.
I agree. We've seen judo used effectively in MMA before. But Ronda is just on another level. That's why she makes it look easy. Plus, if I can be honest, women's MMA is still about 2 steps behind men's MMA. That's saying a lot because they've actually closed the gap quite a bit. Point I'm making is that part of Ronda's success is her high level skill. Something that requires mastery, not just practice. And the other thing is that her competition isn't really the highest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Thaxton
True. Hahah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Helton
I was thinking along these lines, but I don't think it's about which trumps which. Styles make fights. A double leg player will have trouble with guys like Dominic Cruz, Aldo, Machida, JDS...because they control the distance and makes the double leg risky or just totally ineffective. Getting them in a clinch is a struggle too. Styles make fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorrrrrrrrr
I've always said that Judo is the safer take down art though. Shooting for the double leaves you open for knees. Or you end up on sprawl bottom, which also sucks. And considering that most fights end up in the clinch, it's wiser to work Judo and greco. IMO this is why Randy was so dominant for so long.
I'd love to see more Judo used in MMA. But I don't think Ronda will be the one to cause it. Usually high level MMA evolves based on what people find effective in the UFC. Example, capoeira wheel kicks have been used effectively in MMA. No one in the UFC is using it though. And I saw a guy years before Anderson get a KO via front snap kick. But no one in the UFC started using it. But once Anderson landed it, everyone started trying it. Aoki's been using rubber guard effectively for years. Yet no champs are using it in the UFC. So until someone in the top 10 uses Judo effectively often enough for people to take notice, I don't see anyone rushing to adopt it any time soon.
You don't even really HAVE to question the power of Judo....I mean look at Chris Herzog..Haha. But seriously, like Eddie says, you should get the best of everything, and I think Judo is great! So it would be wise to put some Judo in your game along with wrestling, because it'll make you develop a SICK clinch game. And like a lot of things, it'll translate great into Jiu Jitsu. :)
A solid Greco guy trumps Judo in MMA in terms of takedowns usually and this is coming from a Judo advocate (and form practioner). There are still a lot of inside/outside trips that more people are utilizing and when clinching against the cage lots of guys leave their hips open to the big throws. Karo used to nail most his tosses off the fence and even GSP has good Judo when applied to MMA. Two guys I want to see use more Judo more despite having entertaining fighting styles is Yoshihiro Akiyama and Rick Hawn.
She only trained one side :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Jon Helton
I think both wrestling and Judo are 100% about how many reps you put it. Just think of how many reps Honda Housey has put into throwing people to the ground. That is what make it work, not so much the fact that it is Judo. If you have that much time and dedication focused on wrestling you probably could get most non-wrestlers to the ground pretty quick. I you have 8 years wrestling under your belt you are probably not going to give it up and start Judo. I suck at both, so please just "GET IN MY GUARD!"
I doubt judo will ever been seen as a staple of what needs to be learned to do MMA. There are aspects of it that are being used, foot sweeps and inside trips, but how many people are going for hip throws successfully? A couple yes. Usually from the Olympic level judoka. Now how many singles, doubles, body clinch, high crotch..whatever wrestling term you want to throw out there, do you see even from guys that have no wrestling pedigree? A whole lot more.
Plus judo has those silly pajamas. How are you suppose to throw someone without handles...:p
Honestly, I think she does so well with the Judo because there is no female wrestler with a comparative skill level in wrestling. Generally speaking, wrestling as a whole is weaker in women's MMA (no Olympic level female wrestlers). That's not to say that a world class wrestler would easily stuff or takedown Ronda but Ronda's Judo abilities are all the more easier in this current women's MMA environment.
As for Judo in men's MMA, all of Dave Camarillo's guys out of AKA are a solid testament to how important Judo can be to a fighter's repertoire but Judo will always be be contested against the high level of world class wrestling in men's MMA.
We will have to wait for Eddie to develop a new style of No-Gi Judo.
But dont all the AKA guys resort to their wrestling base? I have never seen Fitch go for anything that you could say "yup thats judo from training with Camarillo"Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
Tate was probably the closest as far as wrestling but nowhere near Olympic level
Zog more likely than EddieQuote:
Originally Posted by Kurzy
True dat! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
I'm sure they pick and choose their moves but I always see Fitch and Koscheck go for the foot trips when they dirty box against the cage. The foot trip might setup up for the double, but they are constantly attacking with different tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Name one judo olympic medalist in mens mma. I'm not saying there are any, but I can't think of one. The closest I can think of is karo parisyan. His judo backround worked great in the UFC, and he never even made it past the olympic trials in athens.Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorrrrrrrrr
But I also hold the belief that when you have two effective and similar MA's such as wrestling and judo, it's the fighter that makes the martial art not the other way around. I'm sure if an olympic judo medalist were to compete in the UFC he'd wreck shop.
Akiyama won the gold at the Asian championships for Korea a couple of times, right? He didn't compete in the Olympics as far as I know but that's some pretty high level Judo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah Mendoza
I thought sokoudjou had big potential. Has he even fought since Babalu put that Darce on him?
Sara McMann thinks you are wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2eKEP5od9s
There are many more on top of these.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah Mendoza
Hidehiko Yoshida gold 92, 5th 96
Satoshi Ishii gold 08
Makoto Takimoto gold 00'
Jung Bu-Kyung silver 00' (notable for going 0-4)
Naoya Ogawa silver 92'
Hiroshi Izumi silver 04'
Paweł Nastula gold 96
Kim Min-Soo silver 96
Who was that kid who was owning Nam Pham in the clinch and against the fence. Hell all around with the sweeps to. Must have gotten like 9 or ten footsweeps/hip tosses. Really sold me on Judo. Getting the explosiveness of a good power double back and learning those would be sweet. I think I recall having a good hip toss but never really perfected it after I learned the power of a good high crotch/run the pipe.
But now with submissions in the ball game I really gotta re-look my takedowns in terms of getting into position for a submission.
Jimmy Hettes guys has fucking sick Judo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Stevens
The thing is judo comes from jiu jitsu it was prof Jigoro Kano who created the art of judo who was a jiu jitsu master what he did was tame it down.So all they have to do is add the aggressive bits which suits ufc down to the ground
Yeah, Jimmy Hettes! That is the dude! Hope to see more of that guy! Always get him confused with Anthony Pettis for some reason. Must be the last name. But yeah Judo can be better in some cases then wrestling I think. A lot of the takedowns require a smidge less power and end you up in a favorable position on the ground. Not saying wrestling isn't technique. Just takes getting the body to that level were that is all there is.
That's one woman. I was referring to the general state of women's MMA. Compare the number of high level women wrestlers in MMA to that of men's MMA. The difference is staggering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Gibbs
I stand correctedQuote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Gibbs
Double leg wrestler takedowns were the staple in the earlier days of MMA. It is pretty easy to stuff if you can see it coming and there are less than a handful people man or women, competing in MMA that can apply them at will.
Best and the most succesfull wrestlers who won championships and were not plagued by being mind numbingly boring while they wrestled are Dan Henderson and Randy Couture and they both prefer clinch work and takedowns to shooting from one side of the cage and landing with your opponent on the other side of the cage trying to get your head out of a guillotine. Even Chael Sonnen who has a sloppy less flash looking but an extremly effective double, executes more clinch takedowns since they are usually harder to stuff and once they are stuffed you are not stuck under the guy.
Every passing day I see more clinch work and less outside freestyle wrestling takedowns so Judo could esaly be the next side martial art added to the regular training regimen of an MMA fighter.
Also understand one thing. MMA fighters do not train wrestling so they can take their opponent down. Most fighters who want to use their wrestling for takedowns are already collegiate wrestlers. The majority of the MMA fighters learn wrestling as a defensive technique and be able to have solid top control. It is very similar to Pat Barry working on his Jiujitsu, he is getting good at it, but reason behind his training is not to flap like a fish out of water when he is on the bottom.
I agree. There has to be a answer for fighters like K J Noons who can beat most standing and are really good at stuffing takedowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyK5