Anyone else catch it? Seemed like some pretty legit set-ups. Especially liking the head scissors he went over, looked like a lockdown over the guys neck. Gonna be drilling that tomorrow.
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Anyone else catch it? Seemed like some pretty legit set-ups. Especially liking the head scissors he went over, looked like a lockdown over the guys neck. Gonna be drilling that tomorrow.
Yup just got done watching it.Great system a little pricey, gotta put it on my Christmas list,but the techniques that were demonstrated I will be drilling tomorrow for sure.
i just got done watching a video from mmacandy about it on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZG_r...eature=g-all-u
From what I can tell from the HL's he's basically collected a series of Kimuras readily available on youtube and packaged them as HIS "revolutionary system". Not cool. Not only is the guy jacking a lot of classic CACC setups but he's not even paying enough respect to call the move by its original name, the double wrist lock. Save yourself a ton of cash and just get the youtube videos of all of those exact same moves. Or just torrent it.
Well it's David Avellan who is definitely a consistent world class nogi competitor. I don't think he claims to invent the kimura, just showing everyone how he focuses his game on it. I've learned a lot of shit already from his webinar and the techs he's sent out through email (I'm on his mailing list and he's a cool guy).Quote:
Originally Posted by jeron
So yea, there are kimura videos on youtube, but you're just talking random shit, which is fine.
and I'm not saying to go buy this, because I'd agree it's overpriced.
I definitely like a lot of what he teaches outside of this particular product and he's obviously very talented. My issue is just w/ the idea of him collecting a series of double wrist lock setups and calling it his system, and also claiming that its some crazy new thing. If he was being intellectually honest about the whole thing he would just say, hey guys my game is really predicated on the kimura, this is how I go about doing the move and these are my interpretations on classic setups for said kimura. Instead he claims he's invented a crazy new system and offers up that you will never fear wrestlers again with his system and all of the other marketing nonsense. Then again, if your gonna charge like 200 bucks for a standard DVD series I guess you need to go pretty hard on the greasy salesman schtick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Gammel
If anyone here is considering tossing $200 into this crazy marketing scheme, just go here: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/ul...hread-2180907/
Theres enough awesome well-explained Kimuras to keep you busy for weeks.
Nice, thanks for the link. I agree, his marketing comes off cheesy. On the ug someone asked him about how it's different than Chris Brennan's sets and he just went into how it's a revolutionary system and blah blah. If you need a Kimura dvd, get Chris's for a third of the price (possibly even less).Quote:
Originally Posted by jeron
I agree, sounds like a bunch of shitty shady marketing. Worse than Lloyd Irvin marketing. On the UG someone asked how his set was different than Chris Brennan's and he just went on saying it was a revolutionary new system that has never been seen before...blah, blah. Get Chris Brennan's dvd instead, kind of the kimura for $40!
THanks for the link Jeron. I will have to check some of it out there when I have some time.
I joined the announcement mailing list, and checked out the page, and it just struck me as a sleezy approach like that slap-chop guy.
http://kimuratrap.com/launch5/
Don't get me wrong: I would love to have that DVD set, but I'm not in a place to drop $200 on it.
ETA - I also can't deny I like his sense of humor. Some of the stuff he says had me chuckling.
ie:Quote:
Make use of one of the best and least utilized positions with the North South Kimura. After you learn this, you will LOVE getting into this position (not just in the bedroom – LOL!)
Great thread! Thanks for sharing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeron
My problem was that right now he's only marketing it as a package set. There's not the option to just buy the dvd or just buy the book.
If he marketed it as the double wrist lock trap system a much smaller group would know what he was taking about. Almost everyone who has watched a UFC card has some idea of what a kimura is and it was a much smarter strategy to use that for the name. I like what I have seen of his system but I agree with you that the marketing strategy has been pretty sham wow and I don't feel like dropping 200 bucks on it. I can give DA some respect though because if he has really sold 300 of those sets that is a solid 60k he brought in in just one day. People making money from jiu jitsu is good for growing the sport.
Unless you've watched the whole set, you can't really say whether or not he's ripping people off. From what I gather, he's developed a "system" based on a series of attacks that makes the kimura a "trap." I can't hate the player. I'm not dropping 200 on it though. lol.
All I'm going off of is the trailer, which I would imagine is designed to display the "coolest" looking moves. All of which can be easily found and broken down on youtube.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
It's on multiple DVD's. I don't think he'd be able to give away all the goodies in one video. And mostly what was shown on the trailer were kimura attacks that were effective in competition, not the coolest. Hard to judge the whole thing based on a trailer.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeron
Again, I believe that he developed a system. It starts with the kimura and can go to a number of different submissions or positions. He also goes into counters and reactions. So while the info is out there, he's put it all together for the public. No other DVD series does that. No, he's not actually inventing anything new, but he's still offering a valid service. Putting it all together in a neat little package with flowchart and everything. Nothing wrong with that.
His marketing is tacky, but clearly it worked. So props to him. Thanks to you for that link though. I'm gonna check it out later.
I'm surprised this is becoming so popular all of a sudden as this series of moves have been around for years. David did a kimura trap seminar on the east coast 3 or 4 years ago. I have video of gab using these moves in competition as far as 4 years back. Why exactly is this being marketed as a counter system to wrestlers?? WTF? The power of marketing never ceases to amaze me!!
Its all about the marketing. I used the kimura to get out of shitty situations when I was a white belt and low level blue. Its def nothing new but some people dont realize what all you can do with it. Kinda cool its all being put together into one big place..still wouldnt fork out that kind of cash thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by VJ Bella
It's genius.
For the rest of our lives when someone says "Kimura" we will think of David Avellan.
And I also think it's funny that we are doing the same thing to him that people have done to Eddie for years.
"He didn't invent that stuff; it has been around forever."
"That's not a Kimura (Rubber Guard) it's a Double Wrist Lock (High Guard). They've been doing that in Catch Wrestling (Brazil) for years!"
Lloyd Irvin and the Avellan Brothers are brilliant marketers. One day when I am worth talking about and following in an email list, I'm gonna take these ideas and go nuts with them.
Exactly! Exactly like the people hating on Rubber Guard! Stopping hating! Its their system that they put together!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
This is what I don't understand about all of this -- the hate -- it's almost comical..
Successful marketing strategy is successful?
Look at Chael - you don't need logic if your marketing is good enough you can have all the title shots and money you want.
Lot's of Eddie's success has been his marketing, like it or not. Plus, David sends great content out all the time through his email list.
I never was once feeling scammed by what David is doing - no more than Caio calling Spiral the Terra guard, or Ryan Hall putting out a dvd on the triangle.. Who really cares? The techs are legit and so is he. Forgive the man for trying to make as much money off the dvd he's making as possible. I'm sure that when everyone here is putting out dvds it will never be for money, and only for love, and the integrity of jiu jitsu. Thanks in advance.
Irvin makes some money too. Have you seen video of his gym? Holy moley
I was at his gym in January. It's awesome. And Lloyd is brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Totally agree, he doesn't need to have 6 dvds of completely original material for his product to be valid. This is a compilation of kimura techniques the he put together in a logical order. That should be all he needs. Was some of the marketing a little sensational? yes. Could many of the techniques be found using other avenues? yes. Is the kimura effective and does his dvd provide a variety of useful techniques and strategies? likely. But when we start complaining about it not being called the double wrist lock we're getting a little petty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
That being said, yes the price is a bit steep. I certainly can't afford it right now, but maybe get a bunch of people from your gym all pitch in and work on the stuff during open mat or something.
Haters gonna hate... while I learn a few new kimura set ups even If I already saw most of whats on the dvds from youtube and brennans dvd (which I recommend all his DVD's they are boss) ;]
Yeah, in one of his youtube comments he mentions that he's got an aston martin and a range rover. Holy crap. Call my marketing cheesy all you want. I'll take that kind of success off of doing something I love. Shoot, I'd be happy just making middle class income for doing something I love. Avellan just sold out of his DVD set....$200 a pop for like 350 units. Dude just made almost twice most people's salary in a matter of 3 days...the fact that BJJ is even big enough for that to be possible makes me happy. I can only hope to get to that point if I'm lucky. Props to him. If it didn't sell out, I would've put it on my xmas list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Considering his marketing strategy he could totally be renting those things just for commercial shoots. I'm not saying that, that behavior is a part of his character ( I don't know the man ) but that trick is a common ploy used by direct advertising salesman.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
It's still expensive to rent those cars. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
I guess thats possible but judging by the fact hes got a theater room for his Medal Chasers and pretty much the size of a parking garage of mats I have my doubts he just rented. He is smart with his marketing so its possible thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
Related to this thread!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...=W6Sml1icHOM#!
:) I can't hate on him. Success is the best marketing. It can still get cheesy though. Haha.
I agree with Brandon. For those that are on his email list he sends a ton of free videos. Inspirational newsletters. He holds free webinars all the time. I think David Avellan and his brother Marcos are good dudes and mean well... That's just my opinion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePC18
I think you're totally right. I signed up for his newsletter after you posted this a couple days ago, and I have already recieved a bunch of videos!
I am regretting not buying the KTS DVD set now that it sold out this fast, because I am a low-level BJJ player and the kimura sounds like a good move for noobs like me. But I will rape that sherdog thread that someone posted with the Kimura links to make up for it.
For $200 you might get 30 minutes worth of material on a DVD, on 6 DVDs.
Alternatively, there's
Infinite Jiu-jitsu: Armbar and Kimura Game DVD 3 by Carlos Machado - $50
King of the Kimura DVD with Chris Brennan - $40
Double Wrist Lock DVD with Billy Robinson - $50
I'd stick with these.
Successful marketing only helps BJJ if these guys who make millions (Avellan claims his sold out Kimura Trap System has made him $100k already, and he and his prother have made $4million in the last 4 years) actually invest that into the sport, setting up new gyms and forming their own competitions for people to openly take part in.
Honestly I don't believe he owes it to the sport. Would it be cool to see, yes. But if you're able to properly market your product and make a six figure paycheck you deserve to do whatever you want with that money.Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ Gould
Of course. It was more in response to the other posters who said successful marketing helps BJJ, and my opinion of what that actually would entail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
KJ, good to see you on this forum. I'm glad that you couldn't get enough of my brother and I on Sherdog so you had to talk about us on this forum as well :) I like you KJ, I have a buddy of mine from high school that you remind me of. However, the statement I quoted above, it seems that you insinuated that the financial success of my brother and have not helped the BJJ community. If I'm wrong with my assumption, my apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ Gould
But since you are an obvious fan, I'd like to share with you a few of the things I've done to help contribute to the BJJ and MMA community.
I have promoted 18 kickboxing, MMA, and grappling shows in Florida. I was the official NAGA promoter in Florida for years before giving it back to Kipp Kollar so that I could dedicate my time fully to my gyms. I have two MMA gyms that I opened up (not affiliates but schools I have lease agreements with) that together have about a thousand students (back in 2010, my Miami gym had over 1,000 students by itself). As a result, just about every single MMA and BJJ gym in south Florida has an instructor or assistant instructor that got their start at my gym.
With a thousand students and our Miami facility being open 24 hours a day, I have a staff of over 30 employees that are able to make a living by training and teaching martial arts. Those 30 people don't work side jobs - they make enough with their jobs to chase their martial arts dream full time.
My brother and I have blogs where we have been giving away free videos and emails. Outside of my gym website email list, I started a new website, MarcosAvellan.com, which I have been giving away free emails and videos since November of 2011. So far, I haven't put out any products, I've just been having fun building my list and giving free stuff. I lost count, but I think I've put out over 60 videos on that email list. On Youtube, I've put out over 400 videos sharing techniques, my experiences training abroad, martial arts philosophy, and more. All my email lists together have over 18,000 people on it that I've been sharing martial arts knowledge with for the past 11 years that I've been teaching.
I have TWO fighter houses where I currently house 8 fighters. I pay for ALL their bills so that they can train full time. Five of them were recruited as white belts - three of them as blue belts. Not to put anybody's personal business out there - but one of them was homeless and had never done martial arts before. I saw something special about this person, took him in, and now that person has been through my instructor course, business training, internet training, and has a grappling record of 12-1, is about to get the blue belt, and will be making his ammy MMA debut soon.
I have coached literally thousands of grappling matches and hundreds of MMA fights. I've coached three grapplers into the ADCC and a FILA world champion. In MMA, I've coached guys in all the big shows (Bodogfight, EliteXC, WEC, Strikeforce, TUF, and the UFC).
For martial arts instructors, I am a business consultant. I am one of Master Lloyd Irvin's top speakers for his MMA Millionaire's group - and as of right now, I have collected literally over 150 testimonials from martial art gym owners that have said that I have changed their lives forever with my help. I have helped gym owners go from broke with 60 students to now having over 700 students and living debt free. Not only did I help those owners - but I helped them spread their art to hundreds and thousands of students... rather than just to a garage of guys.
My brother sold 500 Kimura Trap DVD sets grossing over $120,000. He has screen shots that he has shared with other school owners. Why? Because he has been helping others in our industry, that are BROKE, learn how to provide for their family by learning how to share their teachings to more people via internet marketing.
KJ, maybe my contributions don't hold a candle to the impact you have made in the grappling community, but I wanted to let you know that the more the sport gives to me - the more I try to give back to it. But yes, I do make money and I don't apologize for that either. My brother and I offer free trials on everything we do (hence the free techniques online and the 30 day free trial at our gyms) and offer money back guarantees on all our products and services (Kimura Trap had a 30 day money back guarantee). If we are making money, it is because people are happy with the services and products they are getting - otherwise they wouldn't buy after our freebies and/or would ask for a refund. In other words, it is a win/win situation, capitalism in its finest form.
I'm glad KJ unwittingly trolled me onto this forum, I've been reading through some of the threads on this forum and I dig some the posts on here, being that I am a strictly no-gi guy myself :) I've been a fan of Mr. Bravo, we have a lot in common since we were both amongst the few brave souls that dared open up strictly no-gi schools and ranking systems back when it was considered serious blasphemy :)
I'm glad that my google alerts found this thread and got me on this forum, nice to meet you guys.
Oh and before anybody does their own math, $120k with 500 sets is because there were upsells besides the DVD sets that gave the extra gross. And I meant to write "the financial success of my brother and I..." in the first paragraph. I can't edit it. Noticing typos after the fact drives me nuts! My OCD can't handle it, lol
Even if you hoarded all the money it would still be helping Jiu Jitsu. Demonstrating that you can earn a solid income can only encourage more people to take Jiu Jitsu seriously, the more people that try jiu jitsu the better for the sport. If MMA and Jiu Jitsu paid big dollars kids might grow up dreaming of winning ADCC, not scoring an NFL contract. That is a long way off but one can hope, and any steps towards making grappling profitable is a good thing.
Not sure if you plan on staying, but welcome to the board. Good to read your take on things. W