Back control...

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08-30-2012, 07:05 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Back control...

You have the guys back.. One under hook.. and one overhook(?) You grab hands over his shoulder/side of his neck.. Keep your chest to his back.. Is this already a position? If so.. whats the name.. I feel like theres a lot of set ups to armbars and judo-esk kimoras.. (whichever ones grab under the shoulder instead of over). Some slick looking omoplatas? . Anyone know anything or have any experience with this while rolling? Ive been having a lot of success with it in class but I also feel like I might be missing a lot of key points that would be necessary to have against higher ranks. Links of anyone using it would be just as useful. :P
08-30-2012, 07:12 PM
AJ Camacho

What class did this happen in?
08-30-2012, 07:14 PM
Brent Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

You have the guys back.. One under hook.. and one overhook(?) You grab hands over his shoulder/side of his neck.. Keep your chest to his back.. Is this already a position? If so.. whats the name.. I feel like theres a lot of set ups to armbars and judo-esk kimoras.. (whichever ones grab under the shoulder instead of over). Some slick looking omoplatas? . Anyone know anything or have any experience with this while rolling? Ive been having a lot of success with it in class but I also feel like I might be missing a lot of key points that would be necessary to have against higher ranks. Links of anyone using it would be just as useful. :P

What Im picturing is like a reverse homie control...Am I close?
08-30-2012, 07:14 PM
Greg W

sounds like the position you refer to is "seat belt control" Some MTS vids of Eddie explaining the transition to Spiderweb from here.
08-30-2012, 07:17 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

The Shark Tank in Richmond, Indiana. Its a nice place but the people I happen to roll with arent really excellent grapplers.. The instructors good but hes got a bad knee so he doesnt really roll with us. So Im hoping if someone else with more experience with it could point me in the right direction.. I could maybe learn how to make that position better.
08-30-2012, 07:20 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

No, not seatbelt control.. Your hands are behind his head more than in front of it.. Your right hand under his right arm.. Your left hand, over his left arm but behind his back.. like you are going for a half nelson? then I happen to grab hands between his shoulder and neck.. but Im not really qualified to say whats best because I dont know much about it.
08-30-2012, 07:29 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Smith

What Im picturing is like a reverse homie control...Am I close?

When you say reverse homie control.. Im honestly not super well versed in the names.. But is that the part of rubberguard before you zombie? if so, then this doesnt use legs other than to get your hooks in.. and to crawl up their body if youre going for a submission i suppose.
08-30-2012, 07:41 PM
Jared Gammel

It sounds like you have a underhook on one side and a chicken-wing on the other and are connecting your hands behind his back with like an S grip?

The only think I don't understand is, is your underhook coming back over his shoulder to meet up with your other hand, completing the chicken ultra?

Sorry if that's way off, lol -- too high to try and imagine what you're saying.
08-30-2012, 07:44 PM
Greg W

wow, that sounds crazy. Like to see a vid.
08-30-2012, 07:45 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Gammel

It sounds like you have a underhook on one side and a chicken-wing on the other and are connecting your hands behind his back with like an S grip?

The only think I don't understand is, is your underhook coming back over his shoulder to meet up with your other hand, completing the chicken ultra?

Sorry if that's way off, lol -- too high to try and imagine what you're saying.

Im pretty sure you nailed it.. The only difference being I usually grab my hands in a gable grip. But other than that.. Thats precisely it.
08-30-2012, 07:51 PM
Jared Gammel

Like if this guy were to have back control and reach through with his underhook and grab his other hand.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo..._JPG_large.jpg
08-30-2012, 07:56 PM
Brent Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

When you say reverse homie control.. Im honestly not super well versed in the names.. But is that the part of rubberguard before you zombie? if so, then this doesnt use legs other than to get your hooks in.. and to crawl up their body if youre going for a submission i suppose.

No homie control isnt rubber guard or have anything to do with the legs really. Get a picture and that would clear up a lot of confusion.
08-30-2012, 08:01 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Gammel

Like if this guy were to have back control and reach through with his underhook and grab his other hand.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo..._JPG_large.jpg

Yeeaaahhh.. :D Thats it. Is it used very often in jiujitsu? Its hard to look it up seeing as though I dont even know what to search :/
08-30-2012, 08:02 PM
Brent Smith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bPxl...=results_video

Right off the bat he goes Butterfly->Full Guard->Homie Control->Prison Guard
Homie Control is at the 7 second mark
08-30-2012, 08:06 PM
Brent Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Gammel

Like if this guy were to have back control and reach through with his underhook and grab his other hand.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo..._JPG_large.jpg

ahhhh So I was picturing all wrong
08-30-2012, 08:11 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Smith

ahhhh So I was picturing all wrong

haha.. well.. your hands are in the same position at the end.. just at a different angle, and with another arm in there :P
08-30-2012, 08:50 PM
Brent Smith

What kind of transitions/subs are you hitting with it? Since you said youve been having some success with it
08-30-2012, 09:13 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Smith

What kind of transitions/subs are you hitting with it? Since you said youve been having some success with it

Armbar to the arm that I have the underhook on.. (the side of the body my hands are clinched on). Ive also got a kimora on the other arm (chicken wing arm).. but not the traditional kimora, the one where you cup their shoulder with your hand from underneath. And the most recent thing I was trying was an omaplata on the same arm. Kick my foot over the underhooked arm and slide it under the chickenwinged arm while i let my arm slide around the waist. I havent finished that one though. But I feel like its definitely a possibility if i stop making stupid mistakes.
08-30-2012, 09:13 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

*omoplata :P
08-30-2012, 10:03 PM
bobby rivers

I'm not sure who's lettin you wrap them up like that, but they need to keep their elbows tighter and own that shit.
08-30-2012, 10:06 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

I almost posted something about that earlier. The only times I feel I can get it, is as soon as I get their back before they tuck their elbows.. Or if I have a babyarm and Im going for the choke.. theyll grab for my wrist and I can snatch it then. And like I said.. these are white/blue belts in my class. Nobody exceptionally well versed :/
08-31-2012, 01:54 AM
Brent Smith

Honestly just keep playing with it. If its legit youll continue to get people with it and youll start getting higher belts with it as well. If its no good itll die off
08-31-2012, 05:15 AM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Smith

Honestly just keep playing with it. If its legit youll continue to get people with it and youll start getting higher belts with it as well. If its no good itll die off

Thats kind of what I figured. I just wanted to play it safe.. Last time I thought i had stumbled across a move, I found out (months later) it was called the rubix cube and people had already made it 10x more awesome than the few things I could figure out from there on my own. So I figured Id ask around before I started trying to figure anything out on my own. Ill play with it for a bit, and if i figure anything out, Ill try to use it in some tournys so I can get some videos up. Thanks for your help though.
08-31-2012, 08:58 AM
David Rosado

Sounds interesting. I'm not thinking I'd get that on HW's though.
08-31-2012, 09:21 AM
Brent Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby rivers

I'm not sure who's lettin you wrap them up like that, but they need to keep their elbows tighter and own that shit.

Who just lets their opponents do things? I know each time Ive been submitted or put into a comprosising position I didnt just let it happen. Its all about the set up. If he doesnt let you do it, you trick them into it or capitalize on a mistake.
08-31-2012, 09:23 AM
Brent Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

Thats kind of what I figured. I just wanted to play it safe.. Last time I thought i had stumbled across a move, I found out (months later) it was called the rubix cube and people had already made it 10x more awesome than the few things I could figure out from there on my own. So I figured Id ask around before I started trying to figure anything out on my own. Ill play with it for a bit, and if i figure anything out, Ill try to use it in some tournys so I can get some videos up. Thanks for your help though.

Def share the wealth if you come up with a system off of it :)
08-31-2012, 03:19 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Smith

Who just lets their opponents do things? I know each time Ive been submitted or put into a comprosising position I didnt just let it happen. Its all about the set up. If he doesnt let you do it, you trick them into it or capitalize on a mistake.

Speaking of set ups.. I was at work today thinking about this, and wondered if it might be practical to get while going from an arm drag to the back.. If you can pull the arm into the "pocket", all youd have left is to reach across and underhook when you take their back.. and youre pretty much there. (At least in my head. Ive yet to try). The only think Im not sure about is when you take the back.. if it would be practical to keep your hand around their tricep (or deeper if possible).. Maybe not.. but i plan on finding out monday :P (Next time I have jiujitsu class)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Rosado

Sounds interesting. I'm not thinking I'd get that on HW's though.

Thats actually kind of what I was thinking too. I like Marcellos concept of "if it wont work on bigger opponents, then might as well spend your time practicing things that do".. But then again, I havent tried on anyone really big yet. So who knows. I have noticed with the kids between 155-175, I tend to naturally drift more towards their side rather than square with their back. (Im 135) And that makes my grip/control feel a bit more secure. But who knows.. :P
08-31-2012, 03:25 PM
bobby rivers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Smith

Who just lets their opponents do things?

White belts and wrestlers. Chronic knows where I'm comin from. It is not a negative statement and I would love to be proved wrong. What was described sounds like it can only be obtained with poor fundamental defense or by being waay stronger than the guy.

I agree, if you can develop it. Props. IMO I don't see this happening to high level competitors. Which is what I focus my training toward.
08-31-2012, 03:34 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby rivers

White belts and wrestlers. Chronic knows where I'm comin from. It is not a negative statement and I would love to be proved wrong. What was described sounds like it can only be obtained with poor fundamental defense or by being waay stronger than the guy.

I agree, if you can develop it. Props. IMO I don't see this happening to high level competitors. Which is what I focus my training toward.

If i wasnt looking for critique I wouldnt have asked for it :P And I know exactly what youre saying. Theres been MANY times Ive tried something out and it felt like I was doing great with it.. Just to find out later I was only getting away with it because I was going against people who didnt have great defense. (Brandon Mac shut down a move I thought I figured out simply by having good posture.) Thats whats so great about this site. Theres no 10th planet gyms around here.. And not really any great practitioners.. So instead of getting away with my mistakes.. I can just come on here and seek advice from a lot of people with a lot more knowledge than me. For now, Ill just keep working at it and then during the next competition, try it out. If it works, Time well spent.. If not, I still had fun toying around with it :P
08-31-2012, 03:36 PM
bobby rivers

That's jiu jitsu. Always loved your attitude. I'm rootin for ya.
08-31-2012, 03:48 PM
Brent Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronic_jiujitsu

Thats actually kind of what I was thinking too. I like Marcellos concept of "if it wont work on bigger opponents, then might as well spend your time practicing things that do".. But then again, I havent tried on anyone really big yet. So who knows. I have noticed with the kids between 155-175, I tend to naturally drift more towards their side rather than square with their back. (Im 135) And that makes my grip/control feel a bit more secure. But who knows.. :P

Yeah on someone big and strong it might be quite difficult. Might be easier on someone your size for sure

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby rivers

I agree, if you can develop it. Props. IMO I don't see this happening to high level competitors. Which is what I focus my training toward.

I can completely agree with that philosphy
09-09-2012, 03:42 PM
chronic_jiujitsu

Update for anyone whos interested.. Ive still been messing with it, but Ive run into a couple issues. 1. When Im against bigger guys, Gable grip is pretty much impossible, So I just started using S-grip. 2.) Anyone with any sort of significant strength advantage will be able to literally just "flex" out. However, That doesnt seem to be TOO much of an issue as long as youre ready for the transition. (armbars, kimuras.. Omoplata might be difficult in that situation).. Anyway, Still messing with it, and thats been the biggest problems from so far.
09-09-2012, 06:37 PM
Brent Smith

Very nice
09-10-2012, 02:27 AM
Art "ART OF WAR" Belarde

I would love to see a video. It is very hard for me to picture in my head.
09-10-2012, 03:15 AM
Jay Chow

Quote:

Anyone with any sort of significant strength advantage will be able to literally just "flex" out

Then bin it and work on your seatbelt control!

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