Ref stoppage (sub)

What do you guys think? When should the ref get involved? J Jones said himself he was going to let the arm break. I heard he does have nerve damage. Will his arm ever be the same? He obviously won but at what cost? I wonder how educated refs really are to know how to protect the fighter sometimes from themselves. Subs are only going to get more advanced. Can the refs keep up? We look back at Renzo/Sakuraba , Aoki etc and think it was epic and understand the toughness they display. Others say human cock
Fighting.

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Originally Posted by Will Thaxton

What do you guys think? When should the ref get involved? J Jones said himself he was going to let the arm break. I heard he does have nerve damage. Will his arm ever be the same? He obviously won but at what cost? I wonder how educated refs really are to know how to protect the fighter sometimes from themselves. Subs are only going to get more advanced. Can the refs keep up? We look back at Renzo/Sakuraba , Aoki etc and think it was epic and understand the toughness they display. Others say human cock
Fighting.

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in my opinion refs should only interview during chokes when the fighter goes to sleep. fighters know enough to tap or not tap during a submission. if a limb breaks due to a fighter not tapping, he did it to himself. if the armbar is off just a tiny bit where he thinks he can still escape and a ref calls it alot of controversy will start. let them fight imo

Totally understand what you are saying and I hate to see a fight stopped and one fighter yelling "I didn't tap!" but...sometimes in that moment the fighter doesn't have the best judgement. If you had a career ending injury would you later regret and wish you could take the loss and continue your career? Also we want to keep saying we are less brutal than football to push the sport forward.

How many subs have we seen where we don't think he's getting out and does? ( st Pierre vs hardy). Yeah gsp won by decision anyway but what if hardy ko'd him ? If the ref stopped one of his subs the outcome wouldn't of happened. I think it's bad news, it was herb dean who ref'd the Mir / nog fight right? He was right on top of the action and as soon as nogs arm broke he ended it. I think that was the right call to make.

Im not sure where the line should be. I need y'alls help!

Also the window where there is no possible way you are getting out and it's already broke can be very small.

I don't think it's up to the ref whether or not the fighter is WILLING to get hurt or not. The fighter might want to purposely put himself at risk. He might not care about the consequence.

I also think if a fighter wants to continue fighting after being injured during the fight, he should be able to.

In warrior the guy broke his arm and continued another round or two. Chuck llidell broke rich franklins arm then got ko'd. Good for rich he didn't need to come out to the second round. If a fighters arm is broke like that they wouldn't let him continue right? Luckily for jones I think it was a bad strain or fracture but didn't actually snap.

Tough call. I agree with Jeremy. For locks (obviously not chokes) the decision to tap or not needs to be up to the fighter, unless there is a literal break of the bone or MAJOR dislocation of the joint. In the event that the combatant escapes a submission and has sustained visible injury, I think its like any other injury sustained during a fight. The fighter needs to say they want to keep fighting and the ref and doctor have to allow it. I know you cant see inside a guys arms to asses damage, the fight doctor if going to have to make the call with the info at hand (or arm, haha) I believe, MMA, as a sport is less "brutal" than NFL on the athletes bodies. If thats what you meant. If you were saying MMA is less violent than NFL, I really don't see how ether one is violent at all. Punching someone in the face for example is only a violent action if you are doing it with a violent mindset. Now some fighters seem to have the need to hate their opponents in order to perform well. Seems a little monkey brained to me.

The fighters understand the risks and the consequences. Generally speaking, I think the less the ref is involved, the better. Could you imagine if the ref had declared Verdum as the winner instead Vinny simply because his arm "appeared" to be hyper-extended while in that nasty armbar? Instead, the ref did the right thing and let fight take its course. And we wouldn't have been witness to this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=lk0G3NV9xaA

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Originally Posted by Orlando Rosæ

The fighters understand the risks and the consequences. Generally speaking, I think the less the ref is involved, the better. Could you imagine if the ref had declared Verdum as the winner instead Vinny simply because his arm "appeared" to be hyper-extended while in that nasty armbar? Instead, the ref did the right thing and let fight take its course. And we wouldn't have been witness to this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lk0G3NV9xaA

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True!

I think in some cases the ref needs to step in....like if Tate didnt for some reason tap to Rouseys armbar, it should be stopped. Nobody wants to see a limb literally ripped off someones body.

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Originally Posted by Mike Dewitt Jr

I think in some cases the ref needs to step in....like if Tate didnt for some reason tap to Rouseys armbar, it should be stopped. Nobody wants to see a limb literally ripped off someones body.

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Of course there's going to be people (including me) that would want to see that. It may be socially unacceptable on some level to "admit" that. But I can pretty much guarantee the nature of that content would yield high views. Whether on the UFC or some street fight YouTube video titled, "drunk idiot gets his arm snapped" - it's something significantly real that can be interestingly shocking and attractive to certain viewers.

You might not like it and it may not be considered mainstream to like it - but that is far from "nobody".

A ref should step in when a fighter is not intelligently defending himself. In other words, if they're too out of it to make proper defensive choices.

Fighters break their hands and feet in fights all the time and they continue fighting. How would you feel about a ref stopping a fight due to a broken hand? These are adult men who know the risks/rewards of their actions.

If a fighter gets choked out, KO'd, or stunned well enough, a ref should step in. If a fighter chooses not to tap, the ref should only step in once it's completely broken and considered a technical submission. Pretty much, the rules are fine how they are.

Also, in amateur MMA (at least the event I saw in PA), the ref does have the discretion to stop a fight due to submission if they see a fighter not intelligently defending. But in the pros, when you have guys getting show and, more importantly, win money, a ref shouldn't step in and prevent a guy from gutting out his paycheck.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

Also, in amateur MMA (at least the event I saw in PA), the ref does have the discretion to stop a fight due to submission if they see a fighter not intelligently defending. But in the pros, when you have guys getting show and, more importantly, win money, a ref shouldn't step in and prevent a guy from gutting out his paycheck.

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good point

I was thinking Bones must be making enough money to fly to the best reconstructive doc in the world if he wanted. Probably be stronger than before like Tim Silvia. Along with Silvia Ive heard a couple of guys say they kinda like having a titanium plate inside of them.

At the lower levels early stops get sketchy. Should probably be careful for armbar type stuff.

I know someone that recently got stopped early in Bellator because the ref thought he was unconscious from a guillotine but he wasnt. He popped right up and asked what the problem was. Sucks cause the loss goes on his record still.

I think they should at least be able to restart a match after a bad stoppage. Use of instant replay or something

Yeah the fighters that are top-caliber, they know what the fuck they are getting into and what they are doing. Noobs might need interference, but not pros imo.

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Originally Posted by Sean Marshall

I think they should at least be able to restart a match after a bad stoppage. Use of instant replay or something

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Sure would be nice. Maybe not practical but I can’t imagine a L on my record because of a bad stoppage. Maybe refs should have to have an officiating record (lol).