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i was watching the extras on Eddies Rubber Guard dvd and saw how many vitamins he takes on a daily basis. Got me interested in taking some more vitamins, but surely the 30 odd taken there can't be necessary?
currently i take;
vitamin c + zinc
vitamin d
multivitamins
Q10 enzyme
rosehip
glucosamine
acidophilus
Is there anything else i should take to help with my game? what do you guys take and how much of each would you reccommend?
Bin the multivitamins for a start mate. Careful with that vit c too.
Its horses for courses really. There is no hard and fast rule that we should all be sticking too. From my limited understanding (disclaimer ;) What one person lacks another will have excess of. So recommending any product over another online is pretty pointless on the whole.
Most of what you listed you probably dont need any extra of in all truthfulness. The vitamins our body needs exist in the foods we eat, (vit D comes from sunlight so just get outdoors if your concerned about that) and since we only need trace amounts of them it really shouldnt be an issue. A healthy balanced diet should be your priority over popping pills in my experience. This will then provide all your vitamins and enhance performance in all areas.
If you really want health benefits then stay on top of your sugar, sugar substitute and saturated fat intakes, if you are already good with diet then you probably dont need much of our advice :)
Sorry Chris I totally disagree with the large majority of your post (with the exception of the sugar statement). I guarantee you are not getting all the nutrients from your food. This would be true if all our food weren’t genetically modified and stuffed with preservatives. Most people do not eat to fuel their body. I question everyone’s diet that says they have a good diet.
Just "getting outdoors" is not enough intake of Vit D for an athlete who constantly leaves their body depleted. Careful with Vit C? I take between 10,000-12,000mg a day as I train my ass off and my body needs it. Most people have no clue what they are putting in their body or what their body requires to stay functioning at a high level. I eat a natural and organic diet, every meal is planned out and I still need supplements in order to stay on the mat. If I continued with my previously thought "good diet" its wouldn't be on the mat 1/2 as much as I am today. I'd wager my old "good diet" was better than most's current "good diet". Don't limit your knowledge by not asking questions.
Paul you're on the right track. Also consider the quality of the brands you are using. Some supplement companies use alot of fillers than can negate the effects of the actual supplement. I highly recommend an organic diet along with organic and herbal supplements that are body was designed to digest.
Paul if you have specific questions I suggest going to my wife's facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/BalanceByNature
She is a certified herbalist and natural health professional and could guide you in the right direction. Without her guidance it'd be sitting on the sidelines far more often than being on the mat.
thanks guys. on a whole i eat 90% healthy but started taking supplements about 6 months ago as i was getting sick every 3 or 4 weeks. started out just using vitamin c 200mg and multivitamins to boost my immune system and i litterally have not been sick since. so i have a huge belief in taking supplements.
i don't use facebook but i'll get my brother to check the page out to give me some help. thanks again for the advice guys.
200mg is nothing , and active male should be having an intake of 8000-10,000mg a day.
He's a great resource http://www.mercola.com/
ya need some omega 3's in there as well.
I use krill oil
Coach Zog do you eat Gluten Free as well?
Yes, Gluten is the devil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Spalla
woah! as much as that! i kid you not, the bottle these are in says 100mg is 125% of your RDA. i'm gonna grab some omega 3 tomorrow, thanks for the advice Chris, it really is much appreciated.
Good to know. Gluten. Devil. Noted :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Paul, vitamin and mineral intakes have optimal ranges. Too little is no good and too much is harmful - the dose makes the poison.
Various substances also affect one another. For instance, I noticed you're taking a zinc supplement. Is it packaged with copper? The total amount of zinc and copper in the body are important but not as important as the RATIO between the two.
If you're taking your multivitamins in the morning along with your vitamin D, the magnesium in your multi competes for absorption with the D3.
As an athlete I know it's impossible not to overthink supplementation but if you get diet, sleep, and the Big 2 supplements handled, you'll cover most of your bases. The big 2 being:
1. Vitamin D3
2. Krill Oil
As coach Zog said, stepping outdoors (even in subtropical Miami Beach where I live) for a few hours isn't typically enough for your body to produce sufficient vitamin D, so supplementation with a D3 supplement (never D2) is necessary. But Vit D bioaccumulates and if you go above optimal range, inflammation markers start to rise (http://blog.wellnessfx.com/2012/09/1...amin-d-levels/).
You can order a cheap test kit from ZRT labs (http://www.zrtlab.com/) to test your blood levels. Vitamin D correlates directly with testosterone levels, immunity, inflammation markers, and a laundry list of other stuff. It's the true supervitamin and worth getting this one right.
Krill oil is similar to fish oil except that purity issues aren't...issues, since they're harvested from pristine antarctic waters. The reason to take fish oil or preferably krill oil is because the ratio of omega-6 fats to omega-3 fats is chronically high in our diets, and just like the zinc/copper relationship, it's this RATIO that sets off highly inflammatory processes in the body. That makes recovery from jits harder and puts you at risk for a lot of health issues down the road.
I've just written a book on this stuff so please excuse me if I've totally geeked out on you! Hopefully somebody will find it useful! :-)
I enjoy the Robb Wolf "Paleo Solution" podcast. They cover studies about supplementation that might be counter productive. (Calcium, Vit D, etc...) Interesting to say the least.
Also, I have a plantar fibromatosis afflicting one of my feet. Dr. said it might be from taking too much Vit C over the years as it causes build up of collagen. There are a number of "possible" reasons, they don't know. I no longer take Vit C over 200mg/day as recommended for those with this condition.
Best supplements I've found: http://www.newchapter.com/ as they're food based.
So, I'm a biology major finishing my BS now. My uncle who I'm very close with is a physician specializing in internal medicine; he also has a master degree in biochemistry from Berkley. I did some research on multivitamins when I was working on my AS degree. To sum up our opinions (not presenting professional medical advice) on vitamins and supplements; if you are eating a well-balanced diet in accordance with your activity level and don’t have a condition which inhibits your bodies’ ability to uptake/use/produce nutrients, it is overwhelmingly likely that you are meeting all you nutritional requirements. On the topic of dietary supplements (completely different topic than vitamins) recent history provides many arguments for extreme caution. O-mega 3 for example which is just one type of poly unsaturated fatty acid with similar properties, absolutely has been shown to have positive effects on the cardiovascular system; it may also have serious negative effects, especially if taken in excess of 3mg/day. http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/conten...wr027.abstract
Many have died from taking non-fda approved dietary supplements. Grant the FDA is not a flawless organization but they have undoubtedly prevented tens of thousands more deaths than all of their "mistakes"/oversights have allowed. I could fill this post with links but you can find the research yourself and most of mine are to medical journals you have to subscribe to for access. Your genetic makeup is also worth considering. For example people of Scandinavian descent, need only a fraction of the exposure to sunlight that other equatorial peoples may need in order to synthesize D3. Initial studies on the benefits of Omega 3's was also done on Inuit people, who diets have included high levels of poly unsaturated fatty acids for many thousands of years. If you are concerned that you are not getting enough of any dietary requirement SEE A DOCTOR. It is fairly simple to identify dietary deficiencies. Pro-biotic have a place in modern medicine and are well accepted by the medical community. Unfortunately most pro-biotic products marketed to consumers are absolutely worthless because they are not human specific organisms and will likely ether rapidly die or never become active at all. Bacteria are normally highly specialized/adapted to the environment they have evolved in. Beneficial microorganisms that naturally occur in the human digestive tract are almost all human specific organisms. Medicines like flourastore for example, while not yet approved by the FDA are widely believed by physicians to aid in the restoration of gut tract microorganism. You should only see benefit from probiotics is you have taken antibiotic of antifungal drugs which may have killed the natural flora of your digestive tract.
Be skeptical about what you put in your body, whether it is prescription or not and take the time to research for yourself. The scientific method is no bullshit. The fact that we are using computers and don’t have people walking around with polio are a pretty strong testament to that.
There is nothing wrong with Gluten. 0.5-1% of our population has an immune disease which makes them intolerant to the protein. Wheat allergies are often confused/combined with this disease but only occur in about .21% of the population. The rate of Celiac disease is believed to be increasing in recent decades; it is not yet known why but is not believed to be due to more frequent diagnosis, as it is not difficult to identify individuals with the disease. Common symptoms are far more than just bloating and doctors can easily test for gluten anti-bodies to diagnose the disease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I take 16 vitamins, about 70 minerals, 12 amino acids(protein), 3 essential fatty acids every day. I've been taking all that shit plus more like acidophilus for over 20 years and I feel great. :)
Our produce has very little mineral content, our soil is garbage, look into it. We are definitely not getting all the nutrients from our diets, listen to Herzog. If vitamins and minerals weren't crucial to our overall health and vitality then why has big pharma been trying to ban them for over 20 years? They are still working on it too, don't be surprised if supplements become illegal in our lifetime while tobacco and alcohol thrive :)
LOL you're welcome to believe that bullshit, I refuse to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
BTW Aaron works for Wonder bread ;)
Celiac and Gluten-Free Fast Facts:
Celiac disease is an autoimmune digestive disease that damages the villi of the small intestine and interferes with absorption of nutrients from food.
One in 133 Americans have celiac disease.
An estimated 3 million Americans across all races, ages and genders suffer from celiac.
It is estimated that 85% of Americans who have celiac disease are undiagnosed or misdiagnosed with other conditions.
6-10 years is the average time a person waits to be correctly diagnosed. (Source: Daniel Leffler, MD, MS, The Celiac Center at Beth Israel Deaconness Medical Center)
5-22% of celiac patients have an immediate family member (1st degree relative) who also has celiac.
Celiac disease can lead to a number of other disorders including infertility, reduced bone density, neurological disorders, some cancers, and other autoimmune diseases.
Burden of disease over four-year period per patient:
Females: $4,019
Males: $14,191
(Source: Long et al, 2010)
There are NO pharmaceutical cures for celiac disease.
A 100% gluten-free diet is the only existing treatment for celiac today. Get gluten-free recipes and tips on where to shop »
The celiac disease diagnosis rate may reach 50-60% by 2019, thanks to efforts to raise public awareness of celiac disease. (Source: Datamonitor Group, 2009)
But....but.......beer. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Relax there is gluten free beer ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
It is actually pretty fucking good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I'm skeptical....but I'll give it a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I take a lot of vitamins and herbal supplements. I only ef with Nature's Sunshine. They're the highest quality supplement company out there. No one else has the same standards, look it up! And quality is everything. I'm tellin' ya. Nature's Sunshine. :)
Food is so low quality these days too. It's hard enough to keep the poison out! The FDA is totally against 'natural' medicine.
You guys, don't settle for low quality herbs. It's like buyin brown mexican weed, ya know? Just like, WHY?
My wife is a Nature's Sunshine Rep ;)
I would be extremely interested to see the source of that information. Can you please provide the evidence for that claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
this has been really helpful. i'm gonna visit my doctor i think and get some tests done to see if i have anything lacking. thanks for all the advice
great post guys I appreciate all the info
Wow this has turned out to be an ultra informative thread!!
Granted there are peeps with infinitely more knowledge than me on this subject; and just about every other ;)
I still stand by my main point which is 'horses for courses.'
Do what feels best to you. What works for one may not work for the other, and vice versa.
John Fitch is a vegan, Nick Diaz smokes weed, Jeff Monson eats bacon but not bread before a fight, Usain Bolt eats Mcdonalds before a race and Luke Cummo fasts before he fights. Now these are all successful athletes we would be looking to emulate, right? But doing all of this would be massively contradictory.
Also dont underestimate the power that the mind plays in all of this. The placebo effect and the effect of positive thought can override a lot of what we deem scientific fact. All the studies in the world will still leave us without many of the answers. As humans we love to be problem solvers but there's a lot we will never truly understand. To try to get to the bottom of it all is absolutely futile. You are far better off finding what makes you feel good and sticking with that, if you feel good your body will run smoother, that should be obvious and explain why we do things that make us feel good.
For me personally a healthy balanced diet is important to performance, but not as important as confidence. Confidence is the biggest performance enhancer I personally have experienced. Whether I take vitamin c, d and any other letters of the alphabet wont help me train harder if I am not in the mood to train. A big part of the game is mental and thats something that there really is no one rule for all.
Lastly whenever giving advice I always air on the side of caution. Its one thing finding what works for you, 1200 mg of vit c may have made a massive positive difference to a persons training for example, but to assume that thats gonna be the answer to every athletes needs is missing the point. Ive been advised a lot based on what works for other people. Yes it has worked for them, I am not questioning that, but they are not me. So only I can say what works for me.
Chris thats what I thought, until my age and injuries caught up to me. I was proven extremely wrong. Everything that goes into your body matters.
Just off the top off my head you can look up ephedra. I believe it was St. Johns wart that has made a bunch of people crazy. One of my friends’ moms owned a health food/supplement store and died from taking ephedra. She was a health nut in her thirties. I can look up some links later, Heading to a beer fest!Quote:
Originally Posted by James III
Fair enough bro, I always appreciate your experience and take your advice on board. Ill look into the vit c more closely. Ive taken it before, making weight etc as a diuretic, but steered clear of it on the whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I just dont really have faith in supplements any more. Used to consume too much protein and overhydrate regularly. Couldnt work out why it wasnt working for me.
Since then I've cut meat and dairy out of my diet and its worked wonders. Gone back to basics. Not worrying about every little thing that goes in has helped me a lot, stressing about diet just seems counter productive.
After all this time I finally feel like I'm almost there and my training is going great. A lot of the most consistent guys Ive trained with give little thought to diet and supplements aside from generally eating clean. I'll admit I havent really considered the long term implications and issues that may arise in the future, what you have said has hit a chord there but lifes short if I was looking to be as healthy as possible in my later years I would stop doing MMA now and start swimming a couple times a week instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
yes send me some links when you can. Ephedra is just one thing and those alleged deaths have never been proven just linked. We can link many things to the death of someone if we try.
Personally I've never heard of many people dying from non-Fda approved supplements quite the opposite. I've heard of thousands of people dying taking drugs they were correctly prescribed from their doctors that were Fda approved. I found those official figures quite disturbing.
Right on brotha! :) You know what I'm talkin' about then. Man, I was shaking my head when I saw the vitamins in Joe's cabinet in his Kale shake video. No NSP :/
Thanks for your permission to agree with prevailing science. I didn’t mean to offend you. Most people have spent years of their lives studding this would consider your opinion bullshit by the way. Pretty much like a white belt calling your jujitsu opinions bullshit (of course these are not my opinions but the scientific communities’ current prevailing thinking so I'm not emotionaly invested)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I'm amazed a grown man is resorting to person attacks over vitamin shit. What the hell does this have to do with wonder bread? I wouldn’t eat that stuff. You must be insecure in your beliefs or just really emotional.
Everything Chris Herzog posted about celiac disease seems to be correct as far I know. Except the last fact seems to be in contradiction to the Mayo Clinic which is one of leading researchers of celiac. Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong though. I said 0.5-1.0%. 1/133=0.008%.
I was going to dig up some link but honestly all you have to do is use google.
Here wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra..._United_States
Coach Zog is just fucking around. Insecure is not the word I would use to describe him ever. He just cares about seeing people take care of themselves and honestly listening to listen to government and corporate funded "proven science" studies is like watching the evening news and hoping to hear honest reporting. Sure some of of it's honest and good but most of it is going to be a fat crock of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson