Weak side vs strong side

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10-09-2010, 01:21 AM
Pete Daly

Weak side vs strong side

In basketball and boxing and soccer and all kinds of sports, ambidextrousness is unanimously regarded as beneficial. I've played sports for most of my life, and I always found this to be true. Naturally, when I started doing jiu jitsu, I took the same approach as I did with any other sport I had ever played; for every rep I did with my strong side, I did two with my weak side. It serves me well personally, and I'd never questioned this logic until I started to see really good 10pjj players use only one side predominantly and do very well. I am aware of tactics like rescue dog that require you to use the other side, but it seems to me that; if one has a nasty strong side, then one's game can, perhaps, be fully complete.

So my question is, how much emphasis do you guys place on being able to do the same thing from one side as well as the other? It had occurred to me that perhaps not enough of such emphasis has been placed in 10p teachings thus far. My contention is that; with no weak side, you eliminate many of your opponents' defensive options, because they have to be good at defending both sides or I will just attack their weak side. I compare it to basketball where someone who can only dribble drive with their right hand, so the defender simply plays the strong side and makes him go to the left. If I know your rubber guard is very good on your left side, I might place my left hand on the mat and make you beat me from your weak side, where I can just break out and pass your guard because your right side sucks.

Thoughts?
10-09-2010, 01:56 AM
Brent Smith

Its very beneficial to make your "weak side" as close to your strong side as possible. I mean like you said if someone knows you're only really good with one side they could possibly shut down your game. I started really noticing the effectiveness of this with guard passes. A lot of people pass to the left side so therefore people get good at defending the pass to that side. So if you pass to the right boom you shutdown their defense.
I def have a strong side but I'm working to close the gap between the two so as to be a more complete jiu jitsu practitioner
10-09-2010, 02:54 AM
Ubereem1

Everytime i work a move i rep both sides the same amount of times i dont like workin my weakside just cuz i have never used it so far but it never hurts
10-09-2010, 04:50 AM
Jason Hyatt

I had the same idea until one of Eddie's seminars. He was talking about strong side vs. Weak side and putting in reps. Basically, he said if you can put in two reps on your strong side and two on your weak side, you're better off doing four reps on your strong side. The idea being that you only have so much time to devote to training and the only way to improve is reps. It's better to have one really devastating side and one weak side than two kind of OK sides. He said something like it's better to have a black belt side and a blue belt side than two OK blue belt sides. He said it better but you get the idea. I took that to heart and my plan since then has been if I find my self on my weak side, finding routes to my strong side.
10-09-2010, 05:31 AM
NelsonLucca

Its actually easier for me to hit different moves from my weak side. It's kind of weird. So my weak side gets more reps on Jiu Claw and Double Bagger.
10-09-2010, 06:04 AM
Aab

Train both. When I'm sitting there and a big ole fat guy is in my guard I'll just be waiting with my hands on his elbows just waiting........waiting for him to move before i jerk his elbows and pull my legs up to break his posture. And hey guess what? If its his left arm instead of his right arm that goes down to the mat then you better know how to play rubber guard off your right leg too. The tougher jiu jitsu guys are just to tough to waste an opportunity like that just because you can't play on your weak side. Get good at both, damn i love Rubber Guard.
10-09-2010, 09:15 AM
Jon Watkins

I use different attacks on different sides so it's not that I have a weak side, it's my attacks that are weak when they change sides.
10-09-2010, 11:44 AM
Ryan Cook

Yeah, I've been noticing that the weak side is becoming very important. I can't pass some guys' guards on the left anymore. Going to the right has become the only option for a few people. I'm ambidextrous with catching armbars on the fly. I can hit kimuras to the right in half guard and left in full guard... which makes sense since I am on my right hip mostly for half guard. Half guard gets waaaaaaay more reps on the right hip but when I get on my left hip its much more effective because nobody is used to it; they always pass to the other side so they're confused passing that way.

I think Eddie's way is good though, because he knows which moves go with which side (in his game) and drives towards his dominant positions. He explained it quite well at the NJ seminar that I went to in the summer. Maybe someone can explain it better than that.
10-09-2010, 11:55 AM
Eddie Bravo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Hyatt

I had the same idea until one of Eddie's seminars. He was talking about strong side vs. Weak side and putting in reps. Basically, he said if you can put in two reps on your strong side and two on your weak side, you're better off doing four reps on your strong side. The idea being that you only have so much time to devote to training and the only way to improve is reps. It's better to have one really devastating side and one weak side than two kind of OK sides. He said something like it's better to have a black belt side and a blue belt side than two OK blue belt sides. He said it better but you get the idea. I took that to heart and my plan since then has been if I find my self on my weak side, finding routes to my strong side.

This :)
10-09-2010, 12:06 PM
Brent Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Hyatt

I had the same idea until one of Eddie's seminars. He was talking about strong side vs. Weak side and putting in reps. Basically, he said if you can put in two reps on your strong side and two on your weak side, you're better off doing four reps on your strong side. The idea being that you only have so much time to devote to training and the only way to improve is reps. It's better to have one really devastating side and one weak side than two kind of OK sides. He said something like it's better to have a black belt side and a blue belt side than two OK blue belt sides. He said it better but you get the idea. I took that to heart and my plan since then has been if I find my self on my weak side, finding routes to my strong side.

That's an interesting theory. In judo we learn all our throws right handed even if you're a lefty. And not until you're at a brown belt level (sankyu) do you start to play with left handed throws. At that point you really have the concepts down and its not as difficult to adapt to. I think that could work to a certain extent but I guess I prefer my ground game to be pretty well rounded. Using Eddie's example, if both my sides are gonna be a blue belt level it'll just take time to bring them both up the ranks.
10-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Chris Leavelle

Im weak on both sides so I guess Im good LOL
10-09-2010, 12:36 PM
Eddie Bravo

Most boxers fight have a strong side and stick to it. You don't see baseball pitchers and football quarterbacks throwing with both arms. If Peyton Manning spent half of his life training his left arm chances are he wouldn't have made it to the pros.

What I've found is that you don't really need to train both sides of top game jiu jitsu. The person on top is generally the one who decides what side is gonna be played. But you do need to practice both sides when it comes to bottom game but not 50/50 especially if you're a dominant bottom fighter. Make sense?

Oh, and Marcelo never chokes anybody with his left arm and I never choke anybody with my right arm :)
10-09-2010, 01:19 PM
Dwight Roux

If I am on the bottom practice both sides? And if I am on top pick a side? I am still confused though.

For example my twister setups are good on both sides as I have only been able to practice them in live rolling, the gyms I trained at did not use 10th planet and I would find myself on either side and just go for it. Now I hit them from everywhere and feel good doing it.

But when I am on the bottom I definitley have a weak side. Should I focus more on my weak side bottom game? Do I need to change my top game?
10-09-2010, 01:59 PM
Pete Daly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Most boxers fight have a strong side and stick to it. You don't see baseball pitchers and football quarterbacks throwing with both arms. If Peyton Manning spent half of his life training his left arm chances are he wouldn't have made it to the pros.

What I've found is that you don't really need to train both sides of top game jiu jitsu. The person on top is generally the one who decides what side is gonna be played. But you do need to practice both sides when it comes to bottom game but not 50/50 especially if you're a dominant bottom fighter. Make sense?

Oh, and Marcelo never chokes anybody with his left arm and I never choke anybody with my right arm :)

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. I still have a hard time agreeing with everything just because conventional sports wisdom tells me that it's inherently good to master both sides. I can see a problem with reps, but I have a few moves down pat from both sides, and it helps me so much that I can pick apart my opponents' weakness because I don't have one in some moves. On the other hand, had I trained predominantly one side, would I be a better player right now?

This is going to require a lot more thought that I had initially intended, and probably a lot of experimentation. I had never considered having a "strong side" to be a good thing before, but now, I don't know...

Still, what if you could choke someone with your right arm? Wouldn't that help? What if you just happen to get an over/under on your weak side, because that's all you could grab at the time? Wouldn't it be awesome if you could choke someone with it?

Man disagreeing with the master is gonna give me some minus rep lol.
10-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Pete Daly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Roux

If I am on the bottom practice both sides? And if I am on top pick a side? I am still confused though.

For example my twister setups are good on both sides as I have only been able to practice them in live rolling, the gyms I trained at did not use 10th planet and I would find myself on either side and just go for it. Now I hit them from everywhere and feel good doing it.

But when I am on the bottom I definitley have a weak side. Should I focus more on my weak side bottom game? Do I need to change my top game?

According to Eddie, yes to both questions. He's saying that the top player dictates which side the fight is going to take place, so just get really good at one side. And on bottom, you don't know which side the fight is going to take place, so you need to train both. It's a well thought-out and logical position.
10-09-2010, 02:34 PM
Aab

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Most boxers fight have a strong side and stick to it. You don't see baseball pitchers and football quarterbacks throwing with both arms. If Peyton Manning spent half of his life training his left arm chances are he wouldn't have made it to the pros.

What I've found is that you don't really need to train both sides of top game jiu jitsu. The person on top is generally the one who decides what side is gonna be played. But you do need to practice both sides when it comes to bottom game but not 50/50 especially if you're a dominant bottom fighter. Make sense?

Oh, and Marcelo never chokes anybody with his left arm and I never choke anybody with my right arm :)

Lol! I can't believe you make mention to Peyton Manning. I thought you hated sports or something. Hey as a Vol we love Peyton here in Tennessee. Certainly better than the shit teams we have now :)
10-09-2010, 10:03 PM
Ryan Cook

This question makes me nervous because I could end up screwing myself If I train the wrong way.
10-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Brandon Mccaghren

you know how your learning cycles go through peaks and valleys? i use those valleys as times to drill my weak side. it's like having new toys to play with.
10-09-2010, 10:20 PM
Brandon Mccaghren

another theory i have is this:

i drill predominantly on my left side. i'm right handed. i figure that my right hand side, being my stronger side, can learn and adapt on the fly more easily than my left side. so by making my weak side my strong side, i improve my game more than if my weak side was my weak side.

in high school i was a basketball player. i remember hearing an interview with Magic Johnson where he said he practiced his ball handling so much with his left hand (his weak side) that eventually it became his strong side, which in turn made his right hand (strong side) that much more effective.
10-09-2010, 10:55 PM
JAnderson

if your attacking (on top or on bottom) your are dictating which way the fight is going to be fought... because your forcing the other guy to defend. if he's always on the defensive, your chosing which side he has to defend. this gives you the abilitiy to constantly attack from your domitant side.
10-10-2010, 04:30 AM
Aab

Both is better. The guys I grapple with you just can't waste an opportunity because you can't play on your weakside. You just can't. Thats why you should also learn going to the truck on both sides. Learning lockdown on both sides. Hey I'm a highly ranked chess player as well. I didn't get to be that good by only learning to play the white pieces. You gotta learn to play the black pieces and the many defenses that goes with them as well.
10-10-2010, 05:02 AM
Will Thaxton

ever notice Eddie going north/south to get to his strong side/side control? On top you have a choice, on bottom you may not.
10-10-2010, 11:32 AM
Dwight Roux

Good information along with varying points of view. To sum it up in my head

Attacking pick a side (top or bottom), defending learn both ( usually on bottom).

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10-10-2010, 04:17 PM
Chris Leavelle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Most boxers fight have a strong side and stick to it. You don't see baseball pitchers and football quarterbacks throwing with both arms. If Peyton Manning spent half of his life training his left arm chances are he wouldn't have made it to the pros.

What I've found is that you don't really need to train both sides of top game jiu jitsu. The person on top is generally the one who decides what side is gonna be played. But you do need to practice both sides when it comes to bottom game but not 50/50 especially if you're a dominant bottom fighter. Make sense?

Oh, and Marcelo never chokes anybody with his left arm and I never choke anybody with my right arm :)

Thats funny cause now that I think about it I have never choked any one out with my right arm, I always use my left for some reason...and in rubber guard I always try and bring my left leg up...I guess I really am brain washed
10-10-2010, 05:06 PM
Ben

I only choke with my right arm.
I only drill squeezing with my left arm.
I'm seriously fucked.
10-11-2010, 10:00 AM
Hector Ramos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Most boxers fight have a strong side and stick to it. You don't see baseball pitchers and football quarterbacks throwing with both arms. If Peyton Manning spent half of his life training his left arm chances are he wouldn't have made it to the pros.

What I've found is that you don't really need to train both sides of top game jiu jitsu. The person on top is generally the one who decides what side is gonna be played. But you do need to practice both sides when it comes to bottom game but not 50/50 especially if you're a dominant bottom fighter. Make sense?

Oh, and Marcelo never chokes anybody with his left arm and I never choke anybody with my right arm :)

Makes sense.