How do you deal with someone who uses nothing but strength

The majority of my school is blues and purples with a couple whites. I work on technique and try not to use strength and today a new white belt who's huge just used nothing but strength to push me down. He didnt sub me but i was frusterated that just strength alone is pinning me down. I can see how blues and purples can deal with that but my technique apparently isn't developed enough to beat someone much bigger and stronger than me. How do I deal with a spastic muscle bound freak who goes 110% and would lose his shit if someone smaller actually tapped him. I can appreciate Getting beat and held down by blues and up at my school, and whites who use technique. I have trouble dealing with the fact that for everything I've learned in my journey thus far isn't able to stop someone like that. And of course after rolling he says "good defense" as he takes 5 deep breaths as if he had just ran a triathlon. Do I just not stop what I'm doing and in time my technique will catch up, or do I deal with it differently. Any advice for me would be greatly appreciated guys.

I'd suggest, if anything, rolling with him more. The more time you spend having to deal with the problem of his size advantage, the better you're going to get at solving that problem.

Also, don't get frustrated, lose faith and give up. Just think forward to that moment when you finally tap him and how sweet that will be.
It's like the saying goes: There's no such thing as losing in jiu jitsu, only learning.

Hey bro the only way is to sparr more and more with him like josh said above and see as you will sparr more with him you will develope that sense and resistance against that feeling os being crushed by someone who is using pure muscles against you, along with this your overall strenght will develop as you will have to grip fight him sometimes and use a bit of muscles of your own, along with this you will soon figure out that what techniques in your aresnal works better on this kind of guy, so sparr and do think about your gameplan and proper technique. Try to play with him in all diff position as you can, try to figure out where he is not able to use his strenght, try to use good body structure and frames to counter his forces.

Cross your fingers you then don't meet him in the open division in a comp :)

Just got beaten on points by a teammate, who has only been training 6 months compared to my 18. Just to strong from my technique at shitty white belt level to deal with.

Hard pill to swallow. You would think being 2 and 15 it would become easier accepting losses :) Sadly it's becoming harder.

Have learnt I just have to be more patient and when I finally get on top, don't give that up. Even if it means stalling, stay on top.

Be patient, accept you will be on the bottom for a decent amount of time, don't stress if you've been pinned for 3 or 4 minutes, keep waiting for that small window, it will come and if we can't get 1 sweep in 5 minutes, then we are doing something wrong anyway :) Take that 1 sweep against a guy that is just trying to muscle you and pin your down as a win. Small steps.

I started bjj when i was a kid, everyone was bigger than me. I only weighed 80lbs.

I used to have to get to guard and tire the guy out for a while. If they had me in side i would trex my arms and wait for my opponent to move, i would never make the frist move so that i could take advantage of there mistake.

"if you dont loose for long enough, eventually you'll win" Helio

“For the choke, there are no “tough guys”.. with an arm lock he can be tough and resist the pain.. With the choke he just passes out, goes to sleep.” helio

“Always assume that your opponent is going to be bigger, stronger and faster than you; so that you learn to rely on technique, timing and leverage rather than brute strength” Helio

Leg Locks. That is all.

Usually in a scenario like this it is very frustrating for the smaller guy, because the smaller guy who percieves himself as using only technique is in fact using strength for the most part too, with a little technique. So the smaller guy is not able to get the better of a "muslce bound spastic" as their own strength is totally negated.

The journey is long. Jiu jitsu is not instant enough for a little technique to work against a lot of strength. Over time technique will prevail, but you might be well served to take a step back and ask if you are making things work by using strength yourself, and if extra drilling can refine and add techniques, enabling you to perfect them to the point where just using strength against you no longer works.

Never take it personally, do not hate on a guy for his strength, his speed, his technique or any other facet they bring to the table. If you were in his position with very little technique would you do anything any differently?

Let that ego go. Don't get frustrated! This guy is doing you a massive favor by showing you exactly where you stand in your journey.

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Originally Posted by Compella

Leg Locks. That is all.

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I really like this Compella fella.

Besides just working until your technique catches up, watch how others deal with him. I remember this one guy was just gorilla strong and would rough me up. I had no clue how to deal with it. Then I'd watch the twins roll with him. Mind you, this guy had 100lbs advantage..and it wasn't fat. But the twins would just ruin this guy's day. So watch how others deal and pick up some pointers.

Also, the guy is likely using a ton of strengths because he has no clue what he's doing. And if he gets that tired. Just tire him out and take advantage.

I'm almost always the smallest guy on the mats, typically i'm 135-140 lbs and I certainly know how frustrating a big guy can be especially if they put their strength on you. To jump on what a few others have noted, try not to get too frustrated with it. Getting smashed is part of the journey and pretty soon the big guy will probably realize that using strength over technique will end up getting himself smashed :). My answer for really biggies early on and still is at times was the butterfly guard. My goal for a long time was to learn how to keep a big guy off me, once I knew I could get a big guy off me then I expanded my game. Good luck bro :)

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Originally Posted by Ryan Brick

I started bjj when i was a kid, everyone was bigger than me. I only weighed 80lbs.

I used to have to get to guard and tire the guy out for a while. If they had me in side i would trex my arms and wait for my opponent to move, i would never make the frist move so that i could take advantage of there mistake.

"if you dont loose for long enough, eventually you'll win" Helio

“For the choke, there are no “tough guys”.. with an arm lock he can be tough and resist the pain.. With the choke he just passes out, goes to sleep.” helio

“Always assume that your opponent is going to be bigger, stronger and faster than you; so that you learn to rely on technique, timing and leverage rather than brute strength” Helio

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yes siirrr, and as we saw in metamoris Grand Master Helio's jiujitsu is live and well and still the best when dealing with strong steroid freaks. Ryon Gracie treated Andre Galvao like a "white belt" saying hey you can have the dominate position do your shit and i'll just defend lol, if no time limit Ryon would have gotten the tap eventually. and Andre's obvious frustration with being mind fucked was priceless. Helio must have been smiling from ear to ear. I love Andre but his bitterness and need to mention all his titles and ect was kinda lame and certainly ego driven.

my son is 14 and only 88lbs and has always had to deal with bigger opponents for the last couple years.

jiu-jitsu works great on larger opponents that dont know anything.

but larger opponents that know what you know (or even just the basics) are alot harder to beat.

we all have different games, but we each have our own game that we do all the time (creatures of habit).

so what you could do is make beating this guy one of your short term goals, write that down.
each position he catches you in, write that down.
drill the offense or defense for that above mentioned position 100 times a day for a whole week.
before the week is out he will not be able to catch you in that position again.
once you have shut his game down you will be beating him regularly and you will need a new goal.

good luck

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Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme

yes siirrr, and as we saw in metamoris Grand Master Helio's jiujitsu is live and well and still the best when dealing with strong steroid freaks. Ryon Gracie treated Andre Galvao like a "white belt" saying hey you can have the dominate position do your shit and i'll just defend lol, if no time limit Ryon would have gotten the tap eventually. and Andre's obvious frustration with being mind fucked was priceless. Helio must have been smiling from ear to ear. I love Andre but his bitterness and need to mention all his titles and ect was kinda lame and certainly ego driven.

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Yeah people have been saying that. "What if there was no time limits? Ryron would've won." But others say "What if punches were allowed? Galvao wouldn't have needed 20 minutes." And the gracie debate continues. Hahah.

Strength is a technique, too. So is speed. So is balance.

You're always working on improving your base, speed of transitions, use of leverage, etc., so why not strength, too? Yes it sucks getting manhandled by a bigger guy because the ego says "hey, he isn't doing jiu jitsu, he's just using strength...wtf."

But would you be pissed if you couldn't ever sweep a guy because he has an amazing sense of balance? Or couldn't catch him in transitions because he's too quick? Is that "not jiu jitsu?"

In a competition, nobody's doing you any favors and lack of athleticism will get you jacked up whether other aspects of technique are good or not. I say if you have strength, use it judiciously. If you have the capacity to develop strength, develop it. Read Pavel's "Power to the people" you'll see just how technical strength is.

..Or just leg lock the fuck out of fools.

Not trying to piss on your advice, but strength, speed and balance are not techniques. Qualities and attributes that shoule be worked on? Yes. But they're not techniques. :)

Other than that, good advice.

Lol @ Mike trying to pass himself off as a little dude, this guy fights at Rumble weight!

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Originally Posted by Mike Seabrook

I'm almost always the smallest guy on the mats, typically i'm 135-140 lbs and I certainly know how frustrating a big guy can be especially if they put their strength on you. To jump on what a few others have noted, try not to get too frustrated with it. Getting smashed is part of the journey and pretty soon the big guy will probably realize that using strength over technique will end up getting himself smashed :). My answer for really biggies early on and still is at times was the butterfly guard. My goal for a long time was to learn how to keep a big guy off me, once I knew I could get a big guy off me then I expanded my game. Good luck bro :)

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+1 for Butterfly guard.

Technique is technique, but technique with strength is a serious threat.

There are some guys in our club that have serious technique and some have serious strength. They all dominate me because I am a noob. But we have a few guys that have both serious technique AND serious strength. Those guys dominate everyone else.

Also I would like to add a "Thanks" for the reference to butterfly guard against big guys. I will work on that.

The only way I can beat a bigger guy is if I am technically better than them.

More than that though, I have to keep my eyes open to exploit general technical errors that bigger guys tend to make. For example, big guys tend to over commit with the forearm cross face, which can expose their back once you shuck the arm across. Some large guys will also have a tendency to just bench press you off when they are in bottom side or underneath your mount. I usually miss that opening, but when they bench press me off there is an opening there for a flash arm bar. I always blow it though and get caught in a tug of war for the arm that I never seem to win.

Leg locking big dudes works well for me too, as long as I can actually topple them over on my entry. My two go to standing leg lock entries are a "shitty double leg to single X ankle lock" and "shitty osoto gari to flying ankle lock".

Just my ten cents.

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Originally Posted by Compella

Leg Locks. That is all.

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Go all Dean Lister on his shit.

Being a bigger guy, the biggest issues I have when rolling with smaller guys is when they play deep half, butterfly guard, or any entry to a leg lock. Watch the little nuances of the MTS where Eddie goes over the JJ series of butterfly sweeps. Deep half can definitely be put in your game with a lot of reps, watch Jeff Glpver, and for leglocks watch anything coach Herzog puts out. Most of all don't be discouraged because you're being out muscled, don't be discouraged you aren't catching the guy. If you can control him and not let him break your guard and pass take that as a victory. If he does pass your guard its only going to help you get your hips back underneath you and continue to strengthen your passing defense. Are you going to ever out smash Him on top, probably not there's something to be said about raw size and strength, but Jiu jitsu is a marathon not a sprint, I know when I roll with the smaller guys I try not to smash them with all my weight, and not to out muscle them just because I can, Just keep on Givin'r

The only thing I have caught really big guys in is rear naked chokes because I wasn't strong or technical enough to hyperextend their limbs. Arm drag to the back from closed guard or just wait until they get tired near the end of the round and then really pour it on is what has worked for me.

I'm 5'9" about 160 struggling amongst the corn-fed Nebraska wrestlers at my gym. Everyone there has got me by at least 60 pounds. Let them tire themselves out. I have a sheriff's deputy who wrestled in high school and college that out weighs me by at least 100lbs and I tap that guy like ass on friday night because he's impatient and can't get past my guard. Wait for your opportunities and don't let them fuck with your head. In the end technique beats strength.

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Originally Posted by Compella

Leg Locks. That is all.

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I train gi as a white belt so leg locks are a know for me, same with foot locks... BUT if someone has my back and is crossing their feet Ill go for the foot lock just to show them to not cross their feet. I can't do heel hooks or toe holds either... I got my instructor who's a purple belt in a toe hold (didnt even know what it was but had his foot and thought it would work if i figure foured my arms and bent it the opposite way your foot is suppose to bend) and he tapped but just said that's illegal for you. Same with a twister I got on another white belt. I can understand why white belts aren't allowed to do it... They can really do some damage if they don't know what they're doing.

It's great advice though I'm gonna try and roll with him next class for sure.

Are a no**

Try to grapevine his legs he sounds more like a wrestler just breathe stay calm and slowly work towards wrapping up his legs it may take some time but sometimes that's what its all about A BATTLE!

Chloroform

Don't worry man, it comes with being a beginner and white belt. As Kurzy said, at our club we have some absolute beasts. We spend half our time on the mats getting crushed. All this time spent with higher level guys with serious power can be frustrating initially, but trust that it will pay off in the long run! Don't be afraid to ask questions. I'm constantly asking questions when I roll with people about set ups or things I should be doing to prevent what they're doing, tips, etc. When you eventually get the chance to test yourself against people of your size and skill level, you'll see how much of a difference it will make. Suddenly you'll be passing guys like an animal and making dean lister faces if and when they try to slap on submissions. If you can accept the grind and keep and open mind, good things will come in time :)

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Originally Posted by Mike Seabrook

I'm almost always the smallest guy on the mats, typically i'm 135-140 lbs and I certainly know how frustrating a big guy can be especially if they put their strength on you. To jump on what a few others have noted, try not to get too frustrated with it. Getting smashed is part of the journey and pretty soon the big guy will probably realize that using strength over technique will end up getting himself smashed :). My answer for really biggies early on and still is at times was the butterfly guard. My goal for a long time was to learn how to keep a big guy off me, once I knew I could get a big guy off me then I expanded my game. Good luck bro :)

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Marcelo agrees with Mike!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV692quvkYc

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Originally Posted by Dylan Ehrnreiter

Let that ego go. Don't get frustrated! This guy is doing you a massive favor by showing you exactly where you stand in your journey.

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I couldn't agree more Dylan.

I try to get to positions that require grappling strength and work it in rolling to make myself stronger, and it also tightens my technique. Positions like, high guard, rubber guard, holding back, holding mount, arm triangles...etc. If it is happening in class than this is a good thing. Use it to make yourself better some how some way. Whether it is increasing stamina, strength, trickery, combos, and or technique. I don't suggest just using one technique like, just leg locks. It only increases leg locks, you have partners that can make your entire game better.......
be happy.

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Originally Posted by Dylan Ehrnreiter

Let that ego go. Don't get frustrated! This guy is doing you a massive favor by showing you exactly where you stand in your journey.

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That's about right. You're a white belt and he's bigger and stronger than you. There are no magic tricks. Just reps.

Here's what I used to do (and still do pretty regularly):

1. Let all your opponents start in side control during free roll.
2. Every time you escape, you restart from the bottom of side control.
3. Every time you find yourself holding your breath or muscling through technique, punish yourself with 10 push-ups when class is over. You're gonna have racked up a ton of push-ups by the end of the night. Maybe 200 or more.
4. Get home and study how the masters move their bodies from the bottom position and get a feel for what's possible. Watch Marcelo, Rickson, Royler, Ribeiro, Maia, Ryron, Telles. All move differently, but use the same ideas. Uncover those ideas and devote your game to them.
5. Do this every night for a month and watch where your game goes.

Being stuck on the bottom is the best thing that could ever happen to your Jiu jitsu.

Don't stay flat on your back and get smashed. Use framing so you can keep breathing normally (when he's squashing you). Butterfly guard is great for offbalancing the big guy. I also use my feet on his hips and thigh area to push and disrupt his base. Don't stay flat and stall in half guard for a long time. His size advantage will wear you down if you stay flat. Try to curl up like a shrimp and keep on moving and framing. Leglocks also...:cool:

When I started jiu jitsu, I was physically bigger than a lot of the guys at the gym, but not all of them. I had to roll with guys that were 25-55 pounds heavier than me and I was about 220 at the time. I learned that I had to out quick the 275 guy, be patient with the heavily musceled 250 lb guy, and be very careful where I put my legs with the sambo trained guy. The 250 lb guy who had experience on me ground on the side of my jaw so hard one practice that I couldn't talk for about 2 days. Now I tell guys to grind on it, it really doesn't hurt any more. The 275 lb guy covered my face with his belly in side control and I had to tap cause I could't breathe. Now I know to move my head more. I learned alot from getting my ass kicked. My instructor, who I had 40 lbs on, would triangle me and arm bar me while talking to other people in the gym, choking me out 7-8 times in 3 minutes. these ass kickings were great lessons learned, and I have improved from them because I was motivated to not get my ass kicked like that again.

I would suggest you do what smaller guys do to me all the time, out quick me. What I mean is that I am a little bigger and a little slower, so they are always cutting corners on me faster than I can react. As someone else said, they go into positions that I have a hard time working against, like deep half. smaller guys find ways to get places that bigger guys just don't seem to do. Use his strength based efforts against him by setting him up for sweeps and rolls, bait him with an arm, then sweep. Maybe you don't get the sweep or roll the first 5-9 times you try it, but by 10 you will.

I roll with guys I have close to 100 lbs on. I let them take my back, sink their hooks in, and I only defend the RNC, no position improvement - work on shruggin shoulders, establishing grips, hand check defense, and technique only escape. I let them take mount, to work on defense. I learn alot from smaller guys too, to move faster, to be precise with movement, to close small holes in my guard game that they can slip out of (bigger guys wouldn't).

every ass kicking I can walk away from is something else I learn from.

It is fantastic experience to get a minor achievement on someone who has dominated you. They might not even know you did something you are happy about. small victories matter as much as tapping someone out - they keep you in a positive perspective.

I'm done rambling. Good luck, hard work wll take care of almost everything else.