Has your jiu jitsu ever let you down?

In the past month I've had conversations with 2 friends who were disappointed that their jiu jitsu wasn't well suited to the self defense situations they were faced with. In both cases, the victim was jumped by more than one person and the victim realized that their BJJ training hadn't dealt with much self defense training. Both have decided to continue BJJ training, but one of my friends added Krav Maga to his schedule.

Having come from a Karate background, I always feel I'm sort of prepared for the street. The mix of karate and BJJ that I would use in a fight would hopefully be enough. I could be deluding myself though. I've never been in a self defense situation, so I don't really know how I would react.

Has anyone else here ever been in a situation where they were ultimately disappointed in their BJJ training?

Used it twice, worked perfectly both times. Gang banger beating a little white kid up in my yard, warning, double leg, he turned, RNC, hauled him out of my yard, friends pulled up and loaded him in the back and drove away. Other time in Salt Lake city, eating ice cream late at night minding my own business, huge drunk native american gets up from the curb and met me in the middle of the street, ducked under the huge slow drunk haymaker right, double leg, mount, arm bar, dislocated elbow, screaming indian in the middle of the road, two buddies running leaving thier buddy. I was pissed, he made me drop my ice cream!!!

Nah.

For one, Coach Zog teaches a very MMA based style of BJJ. Even if you're in a position that's considered not applicable to MMA, he'll give pointers on how to make it work for MMA. So, my lessons don't just teach me sub defense, but gives me a decent base for punch defense.

2ndly, I'm realistic about BJJ's applications. In a multiple fighter situation, BJJ won't help too much. Regardless of which martial art you choose, the odds are literally against you.

Either way, I don't really look to any martial art for self defense. I look to weapons and tactics. Running into a crowded area is a smart move. If you're lucky, people may help you making the odds somewhat favorable. If they don't, at least there are witnesses and security/police will come to your aid. Also, don't underestimate the power of pepper spray. Bare handed against multiple opponents, I'll resort to dirty tactics like eye pokes, ear popping, and throat strikes. It's not so much about martial arts as much as it is about survival. I guess krav maga does try to address this, but I feel like a situation like that gives people a misplaced sense of confidence. Truth is, against multiple attackers, you're mostly likely going to take the L. The best you can hope for is to get away. The second best you can hope for is to ruin as many guys as you can before you take the fall.


All that said, no, BJJ has not let me down. It works perfectly for what it was designed for.

the gracie stand up self defense is pretty user friendly

i used a cross choke on a drunk guy in the parking lot of my work lol saw sean roberts hit it earlier that day!

i think it work in small ways u dont think of. ive noticed that with myself and the guys i train with, we dont have many problem because training gives us more confidence which stops most fights before they begin. even in a group people will try and pick off a weak one.

another part is keeping my calm when something does happen. i had a guy try rush me once and i went to sprawl but it stayed standing, muay thai clinch with a couple knee to the gut and he wasnt really interested anymore. i think the fact that we get guys in our face, helps us get over that initial shock quicker and react in better ways.

not always gunna work and tbh in a street fight u probly wanna keep it standing especially if its mutiple guys against you but it all helps.

For self defense, against multiple attacker? What do people expect? Train striking for the love of god. If you have to keep it grappling only, then get your Judo, Jujutsu, and Sambo dialed in. I know choking people is super fun but have you ever blasted someone with a kick and seen them slowly melt to the ground? Its pretty fun too.

Krav Maga is a pretty non-bullshit filled SD system. Dealing with being attacked by multiple attackers is usually dealt with later in training and relies heavily on having well developed fighting skills in general and a few common sense principles.

I carry a knife everyday, everywhere and I practice drawing it. Oh yeah, you can fucking die out there so just runaway if you can.

I would forget Karate, Krav Maga and 80% of jiu jitsu learned in the gi! I don't want to be disrespectful to any art, they are good for conditioning, fitness etc but do tend to give practitioners a false sense of security. Watch a Karate/Krav Maga guy spar in any full contact combat sport...I was that guy once! (I have never seen sparring in a Krav Maga class though) IMO Learn to Box first, some fundamental Thai Knees and Kicks and some Wrestling and pressure test it all! If you can add some real self defence on top of these skills its a bit more realistic. Worse comes to worse if you can't get away jiu jitsu will help if it ends on the ground against a single attacker.

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Originally Posted by Johnnie McIntyre

I would forget Karate, Krav Maga and 80% of jiu jitsu learned in the gi! I don't want to be disrespectful to any art, they are good for conditioning, fitness etc but do tend to give practitioners a false sense of security. Watch a Karate/Krav Maga guy spar in any full contact combat sport...I was that guy once! (I have never seen sparring in a Krav Maga class though) IMO Learn to Box first, some fundamental Thai Knees and Kicks and some Wrestling and pressure test it all! If you can add some real self defence on top of these skills its a bit more realistic. Worse comes to worse if you can't get away jiu jitsu will help if it ends on the ground against a single attacker.

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Thats why I said Krav Maga is a pretty non-bullshit filled SD system. Anything without full contact is obviously BS. Plenty of Krav maga people seriously throw down but not much in the USA. Muay Thai and boxing would be much better choices. It is nice to have some good disarming techniques though.

ive had some krav maga classes where its full contact. and ive seen two of the trainers go at it too. its just like any other sport. its not going to help if u only do it a couple of times. but krav maga toughens people up. a lot. maybe over in america its different but al the classes ive seen and been in have been really helpful and a hard workout

Someone presents a knife or gun and gives you legit options and doesn't shoot or stab you first, give them what ever they want. Best self defense. They are unarmed and agress you, assume to give them the busines till business is complete. Nothing is worth your life but it doesn't mean sit there and get stomped out by 3 dudes, fight to get away at that point.

I agree 100% Kyle and Aaron and I do think things like Krav Maga should have a place but in my opinion they should be an addition to some full contact combat sports...as above if you get the chance run and live to fight another day.

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Originally Posted by Isaac Atley

ive had some krav maga classes where its full contact. and ive seen two of the trainers go at it too. its just like any other sport. its not going to help if u only do it a couple of times. but krav maga toughens people up. a lot. maybe over in america its different but al the classes ive seen and been in have been really helpful and a hard workout

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Yeah Isaac...The opinion from a friend of mine in Glasgow who is of Israeli decent and spends a lot of time there...Krava Maga in Scotland and the rest of the UK is extremely watered down to make it sell able to the general public!

Yes !!!!! Every loss is my Jiu Jitsu's fault. It's not because I love pizza and jelly donuts. It's not because I decided to go sit on facebook with my friends instead of doing one or one hundred more reps in class. It's because Jiu Jitsu as a system in whole is flawed. I'm not sure why I even still waste time with it. I'm thinking about taking up Tai Chi..... more combat practical ; )

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Originally Posted by Greg W

Used it twice, worked perfectly both times. Gang banger beating a little white kid up in my yard, warning, double leg, he turned, RNC, hauled him out of my yard, friends pulled up and loaded him in the back and drove away. Other time in Salt Lake city, eating ice cream late at night minding my own business, huge drunk native american gets up from the curb and met me in the middle of the street, ducked under the huge slow drunk haymaker right, double leg, mount, arm bar, dislocated elbow, screaming indian in the middle of the road, two buddies running leaving thier buddy. I was pissed, he made me drop my ice cream!!!

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You had it right the first time, (native american) unless he was from india, then indian.

Judo is awesome though, a throw on solid ground is a fight ender. If multiple opponents, get the heck out of there. But I still love jj and have used it in fights.

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Originally Posted by Ric

Has anyone else here ever been in a situation where they were ultimately disappointed in their BJJ training?

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yeah, tried to toss a guy with a standing throw,cant remember the japanese term for it. hit it in the gym and drilled it a bunch. Problem was we were on a gravel and dirt road and I hit it but slipped, landed face first with the guy beside me. I did actually pull guard on the guy as he tried to roll me over, but pullingguard on a mat and pulling it on 2b gravel is not the same. I don't blame my BJJ training, as I normally never use it in real life, but I was trying to subdue this guy and not beat the crap out of him. Big difference in my mind.

I agree with everyone else who said use tactics, and to do standup training,and fight to get away or at least take the high ground. Multiple assailants is a tough one, even armed. Im a big practitioner of the american martial art GUN FU, I might even have a black belt in it. I always have at least a knife on me (better to have and not need, than need and not have). Stressed induced Weapons training is just as important, if not more important in my mind than BJJ, Muy Thai, etc. Weapons training to me is everything, guns, knives, staff, etc.. I guess I should mention weapon retention is kinda critical if your going to carry. Lots of drills to do there too.

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Originally Posted by Conner MACHINE Gibbons

It's not because I love pizza and jelly donuts. It's not because I decided to go sit on facebook with my friends instead of doing one or one hundred more reps in class.

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DId you steal my training manual?

There's street jiu jitsu and sport jiu jitsu

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Originally Posted by Greg W

Used it twice, worked perfectly both times. Gang banger beating a little white kid up in my yard, warning, double leg, he turned, RNC, hauled him out of my yard, friends pulled up and loaded him in the back and drove away. Other time in Salt Lake city, eating ice cream late at night minding my own business, huge drunk native american gets up from the curb and met me in the middle of the street, ducked under the huge slow drunk haymaker right, double leg, mount, arm bar, dislocated elbow, screaming indian in the middle of the road, two buddies running leaving thier buddy. I was pissed, he made me drop my ice cream!!!

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Looks like your training hasn't let you down! They fucked with the wrong guy. Cheap shit cowards will kick the shit out of you if you're one on one with their buddy on the ground so try to keep it standing as long as possible if you're fighting off more than one guy and use your footwork and side to side movement to make them get in each others way so they can't all have a clear line of vision at you.

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Originally Posted by ern

yeah, tried to toss a guy with a standing throw,cant remember the japanese term for it. hit it in the gym and drilled it a bunch. Problem was we were on a gravel and dirt road and I hit it but slipped, landed face first with the guy beside me...

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Any chance there's a You Tube of this? Sounds very amusing ;)

Disclaimer: No offense intended, just making a joke.

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Originally Posted by Andrew T

Looks like your training hasn't let you down! They fucked with the wrong guy. Cheap shit cowards will kick the shit out of you if you're one on one with their buddy on the ground so try to keep it standing as long as possible if you're fighting off more than one guy and use your footwork and side to side movement to make them get in each others way so they can't all have a clear line of vision at you.

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I finished the arm bar from mount without falling back all while looking right at his two drunk buddies that were still sitting on the curb, they didn't know what just happened and were feaked out with me glaring at them like they were next. They would have needed to get up and cover about 30 yards to get to me. So I felt pretty much in control, I could have stood and ran at that point insted of finishing the armbar. They were drunk after all and I was very sober.

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Originally Posted by ern

yeah, tried to toss a guy with a standing throw,cant remember the japanese term for it. hit it in the gym and drilled it a bunch. Problem was we were on a gravel and dirt road and I hit it but slipped, landed face first with the guy beside me. I did actually pull guard on the guy as he tried to roll me over, but pullingguard on a mat and pulling it on 2b gravel is not the same. I don't blame my BJJ training, as I normally never use it in real life, but I was trying to subdue this guy and not beat the crap out of him. Big difference in my mind.

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Ippon Seoi Nage

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Originally Posted by Ric

In the past month I've had conversations with 2 friends who were disappointed that their jiu jitsu wasn't well suited to the self defense situations they were faced with. In both cases, the victim was jumped by more than one person and the victim realized that their BJJ training hadn't dealt with much self defense training. Both have decided to continue BJJ training, but one of my friends added Krav Maga to his schedule.

Having come from a Karate background, I always feel I'm sort of prepared for the street. The mix of karate and BJJ that I would use in a fight would hopefully be enough. I could be deluding myself though. I've never been in a self defense situation, so I don't really know how I would react.

Has anyone else here ever been in a situation where they were ultimately disappointed in their BJJ training?

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I train at a Gracie Barra they usually do the self defense portion from standing one technique every class. I think it has helped me out ALOT but I know a lot of schools that focus on sport bjj and competition completely ignore this very important aspect. I feel more prepared since I switched over to GB then I would have been if I just stayed and trained at my old BJJ gym.

Ive had to use my BJJ in a street fight twice and both times it worked out. The first time a bigger guy threw a haymaker and I got him into safe clinch and then controlled him and hip tossed him. The second time was on the beach in miami and I used my drop seoinage to take him down and just controlled him till he gave me his back then I used the RNC

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Originally Posted by Ric

Any chance there's a You Tube of this? Sounds very amusing ;)

Disclaimer: No offense intended, just making a joke.

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No worries, I wasn't offended. To answer your question, No, there is no youtube or video of it. The guys at work would just keep sending it to me for the rest of my career, make photos out of it and post it all over the office, etc. His lawyer would have loved to have had a video of anything that made me look bad.

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Originally Posted by Kyle Spalla

Ippon Seoi Nage

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Thanks. I can never remember those names.

If you guys ever want to check out judo check this site out,

http://judoinfo.com/gokyo.htm

Also dont make any snap jugements but these guys seem to have the Koryū and the Gendai budō locked down,

http://www.akban.org/

http://www.akban.org/wiki/Category:N...ing_techniques

The issue with "Jiu Jitsu Failing You" isn't that it failed you. It's just not always applicable in multi-opponent/multi assailant situations, Who are kicking, Punching, Biting, Stabbing, Shooting. I think of myself as a pretty proud individual, but if someones trying to rob me with a weapon, It's not that big of a deal to me to let my wallet go and live another day, Drunk guys at a bar getting too rowdy, is it really worth putting them out, and risk getting suckered by a beer bottle, stabbed, or something like that. Don't get me wrong in no way, shape, or form, am I saying to not defend yourself or protect yourself, but when you're n a situation where your out numbered even the best fighters should probably take a walk. Just because you're a blackbelt in Jiu Jitsu, a blackbelt in TKD, or a Blackbelt in Trash Talk doesn't qualify you to take on 3+ guys. If you're in a situation where there is no hope to "escape and evade" and you have to stand your ground, do it standing. Hopefully you have a buddy you can scrap side by side with. But in the case of guns, Knives, Multiple attackers, they can have my wallet, they can have my phone, I can always get another one.

I've been in a situation where there was no out, and 2 on 2 turned into 12 on 2. If you don't believe me, you can ask the Panda. We were on a roadtrip for my sisters hockey games and some drunk frat boys, started puking in the hallway and they were doing blow in their room with the door open, and Panda politely asked them to chill out because my sister and her friend were in the room next door. One guy got brave and stepped in the Panda's face, I hear my mom screaming for me to come out of my room, so naturally I push the Panda out of the way and get nose to nose with this guy, somewhere in there someone pushed someone and it all got set off, 2 turned to 12 and it was a full on melee. I walked out unscathed, the panda had a nice cut from getting suckered by a guy with his class ring on. We were lucky no one had a knife or any sort of weapon. So moral of the story is, if you can avoid confrontation, Avoid it.