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how do you stop people from standing up and slamming you. I just been grabbing a leg and I can go to attacking the legs but Im not allowed to do that on most of my training partners. Should I ask my coach to stop letting us slam each other rampage style? Maybe I just need to be transitioning more quickly to positions that they cant stand up from like invisible collar?
Slamming from guard is illegal in virtually every grappling comp. Slamming training partners is just kinda stupid.
From a fighting viewpoint, it needs to be addressed. Transitioning to ic will help. He cant stand from there. Also use the hand thats hugging the knee to hook his foot as he stands and collapse him back down. Double baggin will prevent the duck out. If by chance he does get you up, release guard and work off your overhook. I also like to immediately drop to the double or single. They cant really sprawl if you time it right.
Keeping His Head Turned And Keeping A Good Angle Will Help With this
Ya its kind of weird that slamming is cool but leg locks aren't.
Keep your rg tight, leg curl hard dig that forearm into their collar bone, then AS SOON as they try to pick you up hook their leg. There's no way to pick you more than a couple inches off the ground. Just hold position till they set you back down.
You gotta good at over hooking his leg with your non-mission control arm. It's quite easy :)
Your coach lets dudes slam out of guard, but leg locks are banned for safety reasons?
Seriously ?
Easy for the master lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
come to a 10th planet gym with an og instructor and learn..
Anticipate stronger guys and fresh bodies are gonna wanna do this, on the mat or off the mat. There's a point where you gotta bail or pay dearly.
After getting slammed from my own rg and triangle attempts, I've learned early on never to trust my training partners or opponents to play nice-nice, so I gotta keep a real life mindset.
If they power out and stand before you're able to counter, let go and think about your escape. And in that transition, look for an opening to attack.
I actually got lucky in the gym a few weeks ago. A guy picked my up in RG.
As I let go, I managed to tip him backwards n I ended up in mount.
Caught an Americana seconds later
I know this sounds unreasonable but let me explain, its like this, our gym is an mma gym, I think this is common but LOTS of guys come only a couple times and dont keep coming. Because we have a mix of new guys and regulars all rolling together, the general rules is no leg locks, a couple times I asked for straight ankle locks only and he kinda looked at who was there and said ok. If its just me and my instructor or the more experienced guys then it's just known that it cool to do leg locks. Truthfully he only fears people not tapping quickly on heel hooks or a new guy applying them like an asshole. I was told by a kung fu guy I was training with at a hwa rang do place (we mix it up:)) that my coach had him in a straight ankle lock and he was trying to escape and broke his ankle. Guy said straight up it was his own fault no hard feelings but I could tell my coach wasn't too happy the guy broke his own ankle instead of tapping when i asked him about it. Maybe that has made him shy away from newer guys and leg locks. I dont really have a problem with his policy at all, since its probably protecting me from people who come in having only seen heel hooks on WWE and UFC and are gonna crank my shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
On the slams, if I or anyone asked him, "can we slam each other?" he'd probably say no. I The way it has gone down, I haven't gotten rocked to hard, I saw he noticed and didn't like it but seemed like he saw I was fine and let it go. If I said anything at all it would never happen again no questions asked.
I think I got enough great advice her that I really wont worry about it anymore. THANKS EVERYONE!
Crazy that I can get this level of advice pretty much instantly, including advice from the master himself!
I really appreciate it. 10th Planet is an amazing group of people!
^This. Also the technique below has worked for me in the past with people who like to slam and then say 'I dunno what you're talking about bro that was no slam!': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J705-D7lI64Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Rick
air pump looks sick!
Damn RiteQuote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
read above, I can see why skipped it, too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Philips
You can do it in MMA, they banned it in pride I think. its an mma gym not jui jitsu.
that air pump looks awesome, gunna have to start putting that into my game. anyway. i just got a guy the other day who tried to slamm me when i had chill dog. when he got me up quite high i just pulled my upper body closer to my legs and slipped on a guillotine and dropped my legs.
when they stand up usually they will lift their heads up and sometimes expose their necks. its a lot easier anyway. guillotine is a go to move for me so thats how i deal with it. i didnt see it up here so i thought id mention it.
Still doesn't make sense, leg locks are legal in mma. Also doesn't make sense on a rational level, slamming someone could casue far greater injuries than leg locks. Neck, spine and trauma to the brain are far more crippling than a torn acl. Leaves a lot of questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
We had one Marine get slammed so hard the guard overseas by our instructor, that he slammed head against the ground giving the dude on bottom minor brain damaged. We weren't even grappling on tatami mats, these were some gym mats on some puzzle floor, they ended up having to send the Marine to Germany for a full medical evaluation and the instructor lost rank and his Instructor tab. Slamming from the guard is waaaay more dangerous than leg locks. You never heard of someone getting heel hooked and forgetting their name.
I see your point, thing is you dont have to teach how to escape being slammed, you just give up the guard. You do have to teach people how to properly apply, defend, escape leg locks and they have to know what they even feel like to make a decision on when to tap. You're right of course that the potential for serious injury is greater in theory from being slammed but your talking one hell of an effort that most people cant pull off and you'd have to slam the guy from standing full upright to be serious risking major injury. I guess what I mean is it much easier to throw on a heek hook and hurt someone without giving them a chance to tap than it is to stand up with someone wrapped around your head and slam them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
If my coach saw someone stand full upright with a guy on them, he would let them slam them. Hes not anti-leg lock in anyway, not even for newbies but they have to be shown first and have it explained to them that damage can be done before it really hurt much and basically dont be a dick when applying them. Its easier to say no leg locks until all the newer guys get tired of being tapped and leave and then everyone else knows its cool. Otherwise every fickin night he'd have to start off with a little tutorial for dudes that probably will only show up a couple times. I did have other martial arts and grappling experience but I've only got 7 months on my jui jitsu white belt and he had me doing heel hooks after two weeks because I show up, stay late and am not the type to crank on a training partner inappropriately.
This is a small gym, there's no official "slams in the guard are ok" policy. In fact if there was a policy at all I guarantee you they would not be allowed. I was getting slammed repeatedly from like a 16"-24" off the ground and I was fine and still trying to work on a guy thats not as good as I am.
Since you're know as the king of leg locks a great coach, I am very interested to know how you handle newbies and more potentially dangerous techniques? Do you have beginners classes where people just start off drilling and get instruction before you just let them roll, no holds barred? I was hoping you would respond when I made this post.
Good post!Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bodmon
Also, why not hit a star sweep?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMRg5YWLmRM
Heel hooks are one of many types of leg locks, all leg locks shouldn't be banned because the danger of one technique, and all technqiues are dangerous if you don't know how to defend them properly. I totally disagree that all you have to do to avoid a slam is open your guard or of the effort required. I've seen severe disc damage from a slam that was less than 2-3 inches off the ground while the opponent doing the slam was still on his knees. The potential risk from a slam vs a leg lock is not even in the same ball park.
At my school all new students must go through a month of technique class with live situational drills before they can roll. No twisiting leg locks while rolling (heel hooks and toe holds) until blue belt.
I understand where youre going with your explanation but upper body attacks are just as dangerous without proper defense knowledge. Leg locks are dangerous because a ton of people don't know how to properly defend or know the limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
I view slamming the same as I do other dirty moves like the can opener.
If your in an mma gym, picking someone up with intent to slam is a legit tactic. It shouldn't be ignored or made illegal either because it is a realistic scenario. He should be aloud to pick you up, but not slam you. If he gets you up, he should set you back down in either open guard or side control. Everybody should be able to go to work tomorrow with proper training guidelines.
Air pump is awesome. Had a bigger training partner that would just stand up when in danger of triangles or rubber guard. Air pump made him think of other defensive stuffs rather than standing with the hopes that the fear of being lifted into the air would cause me to let go
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...LuCz8Jv9C9ClZQ
Im not questioning you just wondering which upper body attacks are as dangerous as a heel hooks? Do heelhooks just feel weird to me for psychological reasons? seems like they can damage with out a lot of pain first?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
My coach would agree with you here, he just doesn't want to go over it every time there's a new guys so that we can use them. tonight it was just a few guys and we've all been shown so it was no question leg lock allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Why do you feel this way about either technique? Is it that they have high potential for damage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
makes a lot of sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
Thanks coach! I really appreciate your knowledge. I would have never thought that such sort slams could do so much damage. Now I feel stupid for taking them. Your right of course about the heel hook being the only dangerous leg-lock. I know my instructor agrees. I think he says no leg locks instead of no heel hooks because if hes says no heel hooks then one of the new guys will say whats a heel hook? then he has to show them. If he says no leg locks then they dont question. He has allowed straight ankle locks and knee bars with new guys when I asked him to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Im a long way from blue belt (i assume, i dont what blue belts are supposed to be) but we do use heel hooks when its the right crowd. We apply them very slowly and with eye contact, No one but my coach tries to escape them.
I let my instructor know I was talking about him and the gym in case he wanted to look over what I've written. I was kinda wrong about how he views 10th planet. I said he thought it was a collection of tricky moves with cool names. Thats not what he thinks, he said he knows its legit and that he got his purple belt from Rigan Machado before he went to train with dave terrell. He knew Eddie was under Jean Jacques and had some good things to say about Eddie, said he was there when he tapped royler and that Eddie must be a super cool guy to be as nice as he is with all the shit he gets from some of the jui jitsu community and that he in no way deserves said shit. Also said if we start seeing more 10th planet working in MMA then we will start drilling it.