Need your advice on this.

So last night, Cora's coach told me that he's noticing Cora doing alot of lockdown and clinching now and he continue to tell me about his own fighting style and where he wants to steer Cora to. Basically he doesn't want her to rely too much on the clinch game and the lockdown game as people can easily pass her guard. Rather, he wants her to play the open guard game more, with the Z guard, spider guard, DLR, etc etc...and just have the lockdown on stand by as a last resort. He said that with open guard, she can better control the distance. All of this coming from him maybe because he spent a week with the Mendes bro during his stay in Cali for the Pan Ams.

I'm kind of on the fence on this one as I do agree with him to a certain extent. I know eventually she will have to know all type of guard games, whether it be close or open. But at the moment, we are trying to perfect the close guard, half guard, and the lockdown game. I want this to be her foundation as we all know eventually you will have to clinch. And its better if she is ready for that game now. Once she has a good grasp of this game, then we will venture to other type of guard. We did the spider guard game already and at high level, she is not able to control the boys as she is with the clinch. THat is why I am focusing on the clinch game so much now and building her strength up.

Or maybe have her play the open guard in GI and clinch/ lockdown game in NO Gi??

what's your take on it guys...?? Thank you... Bruce

And so it begins, As a wise Zog once said, listen to your coach. If you don't like it you do have a choice to find another gym that is more in line with your own beliefs.

I'm sure Zog has a meme for this, I've see it!!

so this is a common occurance??

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Originally Posted by Cora Sek

so this is a common occurance??

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unless your coach has zero ego and a very open mind, it can happen! Think about it, your coach knows a thing or two right! He sees Cora's sucess with things he has not taught her, and it is not part of his plan for her, or what he feels comfortable with. Also he sees her talent and where she could go if she went down that open gaurd game that he likes. If she kills with the open game and wins big, it could possibly be a bit of stroke to his ego. If he spends time and energy teaching her a more open game and she never practices it in live rolling, then it can be a bit of a slap in the face. As long as you are at that gym and paying, you should listen to what he says and pull every bit on knowledge from him you can, he didn't get were he is at for nothing ya know.

One gym I visited once the coach there (silver medalist in pan ames yrs ago) said he didn't always like how much the 10th planet game relies on the clinch, but other than that no other gym have I gone to have people bashed the system (well, one other exception one gym I train sometimes at the first week we met he bashed Rubber Guard but aside from that). So I can't comment on it being a common occurrence....but as coach Zog said do u have an option to maybe visit another gym once or twice a week to focus on the parts u want her to, and then the rest of the week have cora train with the current coach? Obv not a black belt, but just throwing some ideas out there...

sticky situation, but as a instructor you have to realize different people will gravitate towards different things, and instead of trying to put them in a box and force your game on them. you should try to learn about the game there interested in and help them as much as possible & in return you will be learning yourself, one of my students asked about tornado guard witch i never played with so i learned it to help him with it now i like it too. Jean Jaques didn't use rubber guard but he did help Eddie develope it and never tried to force Eddie to play a game thats not natural to him.

No we have no other option. THis gym is a great gym with a lot of cool people and coaches. We go there 5 times a week from 6-7:30 or sometimes 8pm. This is not her head coach that talk to me. Its her blue belt coach, the one that work with her the most and we have a certain bond. He's really cool and wants to help Cora as much as he can. It was something that he just brought up last night. In my opinion and feeling, I just want Cora to have a solid FOUNDATION with the clinch game/ close guard game, especially the rubber guard. If Cora keeps working on the Clinch game and the rubber guard, when she gets older, she will have a very strong advantage on people who doesn't do this type of game. She will be able to fight people who are much bigger and stronger than her. I'm building this foundation for the future, not just for now. Maybe I'm just really SOLD on this system, that I believe this is it for her. There are many kids in her BJJ class, but to be honest, none has improve the way Cora is. THe only thing that is attribute to her vast improvement from the rest of the kids is 10thplanet system. Since Nov when I injected 10thplanetJJ into her game and you all can see the improvement. She just pick this stuff up so fast, perhaps its because we drill it often. The other kids are learning the stuff at the gym, but they aren't progressing like Cora. This is why i'm so Sold into the system. Maybe when she really get this clinch game down, then we can progress into the DLR and Berimbolo as her coach recommend.

I disagree completely with the notion that clinching guard = getting passed, sounds more along the lines that this particular coach doesn't have a complete grasp on the concept of lockdown and other clinching guards. No offense to the blue belt coaches out there, but blue belts are still beginners and have much to learn.

That being said, like the others have mentioned Cora has a Coach. There is a reason she is training with him, she should listen to him, if she resists his teachings he will be less incline to offer advice in the future or dismiss her all together. The other option is to find a Coach better suited for the style of game play she feels comfortable with.

As a Coach, I give every student a fair shake, if someone continuously decides to disregard my advice I'll just stop offering it to them and save my energy for those that are willing to receive it.

The guards can be used in harmony together. Practicing one does not shun the other. It does have to be practiced to be useful, however.

Agreed with Bobby, she will eventually have to learn a style of open guard as her opponents will start to avoid her clinching guards like the plague.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Agreed with Bobby, she will eventually have to learn a style of open guard as her opponents will start to avoid her clinching guards like the plague.

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Especially considering how often she is competing, she will be a common face in the crowd and her opponents will train specifically to beat her after they lose a bunch of times.

Variety is the spice of life. Always have something to throw people off.

... You mentioned this isnt the main coach but a bluebelt coach. I would find out what the main guy thinks.

If he wants her to work those guards ok do it no choice...

But like dlr and spider guard dont work no-gi that great you would have a better foundation with lockdown and butterfly than those anyday.

Zguard is good to know its a nice transition guard.

Plus the closed game is better, why do I want to play an open game so that you can play an open game when I could play a closed game and you have to respond to what Im doing far more making it less likely that youll catch me.

Thats my opinion.

"As a Coach, I give every student a fair shake, if someone continuously decides to disregard my advice I'll just stop offering it to them and save my energy for those that are willing to receive it."

Ditto.

"Agreed with Bobby, she will eventually have to learn a style of open guard as her opponents will start to avoid her clinching guards like the plague. "

Exactly. You'll run into some people that you just can't clinch or hold in a clinch and force you into an open guard game.

It seems to me like he wants to steer her towards his game because obviously that's what he can teach. Lockdown isn't his game. Cora may in fact be better at lockdown than he is. How is he going to help her with her game if he doesn't know the system?

I disagree with him trying to tell her not to play it. Obviously its working tremendously, especially now because she's young and will have to go against boys who may be bigger and stronger. Clinching game is where its at. This is not to say that open guard isn't good. Of course it is. And she should start working all aspects eventually. But why abandon your game when its already winning?

Cora already has her style. Is she having fun playing it? Does she want to start playing open guard? Everybody has a certain style, and its their style because they love it, and it flows. Flowing is key in jiu jitsu. Everything natural. If you just don't like inverted guard, you can't force it. The same way you can't force rubber guard on someone.

I say take what you can from him. I'm sure he has things to offer and can teach her a lot of great techniques. But as far as game planning goes, and trying to manipulate her whole game, that's for Cora to decide, you to help decide, and her head coach to help decide.

Lots of great advice on this thread.

I like it when students of mine are attracted to styles of Jiu Jitsu I haven't mastered yet. It's great for the health of the 10p species. This blue belt coach could look at this situation as a blessing. Cora is exposing the other kids in class to the clinching game. They will be better prepared for it in competition thanks to Cora.

But unfortunately he prolly won't see it that way so you may have to listen to him at least a litte bit :-)

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Originally Posted by Ryan Brick

... You mentioned this isnt the main coach but a bluebelt coach. I would find out what the main guy thinks.

If he wants her to work those guards ok do it no choice...

But like dlr and spider guard dont work no-gi that great you would have a better foundation with lockdown and butterfly than those anyday.

Zguard is good to know its a nice transition guard.

Plus the closed game is better, why do I want to play an open game so that you can play an open game when I could play a closed game and you have to respond to what Im doing far more making it less likely that youll catch me.

Thats my opinion.

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Agree mostly. Dlr and spiral work awesome nogi. It takes a lot of reps. Every limb needs a job. And it has to be a focused advanced. And you also have to be able to do it inverted through a transition. Not easy. But waay worth the reps. Its money.

Spider guard is useless nogi though.

THank you guys so much for taking the time to share your advices. Well I spoke to her "blue belt" coach tonight and we came up with a solution. Although he is a blue belt, he doesn't know or studied the 10thplanet system the way I do. So I will continue to teach Cora the 10thplanet system as he admit that its working for her, she will use this in the NO GI. For his part, he will teach her everything about the open guard game. The reason why he care so much for Cora and her game is because he see that she can be really good just like him. She's not afraid to train hard, which he test her heart out many many times. He is only 19 yrs old and he loves to teach. That is why after teaching 2 kid classes, he spend another 30 minute after class with only Cora. He said that training Cora also get him ready for his tournament also. These two always have a bet as to who has the most tap out in each tournament...:)

Master Eddie: you are 100% correct. Before Cora, there were no clinching. Now, she introduced them to the lockdown, the electric chair sweep, dog fight, and of course the Rubber Guard. Now more and more, everytime Cora spar, the parents always tell their kids to "Look at Cora"...LOL I even use this to recruit kids for after class sparring session for Cora. I would tell the kids that if they spar with Cora, she will put on moves that they haven't seen before and if they do well against her, they are ready for anyone that's out there...:)

Glad you found a solution. Ask Marcelo though, its hard to have two totally different games for gi and nogi. But as was said before, listen to your coach or he’s useless.

Just like riding a bicycle, before we found 10thplanetJJ, Cora go to guard was the Spider guard. She was killing it with that, but when she use it more and more, the stronger kids take note of that and start smashing it. Then we found 10th and the RG. So last night with the thought of what her coach recommend. She would threaten them with the RG and when they popped out she caught them in her Spider Guard and she finished it off with the Triangle. So moral to the story is that it works. When people know what you know they develope a defense to that and leave themselves open for the unexpected. The Game is getting FUN NOW...:)