http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haUpSrOZdhY
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Pretty cool video aside from the Zog no-no's like falling straight back instead of getting to your side.
Wait, what? Toe hold off the old school sweep? Is this real life?
Never liked how most bjj guys finish the kneebar, we always would finish with the foot on the other side of the head (like in the last 2 kneebars) too use the head so they cant turn the leg for the escape, just a personal peference, plus I like using a 'hook' with the inside of the elbow with one arm and with a gable grip to actually rotate the leg so it has a twisting kneebar action
Maybe going for the "legal" BJJ version?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
I show one example where I mention that it's highly recommended to put your head on the mat which places you on your side so then it increases your control. This is how I usually work to finish the ankle lock...but wanted to make sure that people could see most of my positioning. While you can finish the ankle lock a bit more on your back, I def do recommend that you fall to your side like you mentioned.
Jason
J Scully is very generous to the JJ community as a whole when he makes vids like this. I really appreciate your vids Jason. Thank you.
good stuff
Thanks for participating in the forum here, Scully.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasculs
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+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrob
Ah this makes perfect sense together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasculs
Thanks for posting the video, I always like to see what other people come up with.
Excellent job on the clip Jason love your shit mate.
Old school on it!!!!
Lots of Leg Lock no-no's in this video. I like Jason's video's, he puts out good stuff, however there are a number of common mistakes in this video.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Agreed, the foot always goes on the bottom side of the head when kneebarring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrob
No problem :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
It would be nice to be able to get it in that situation all the time but in reality when you are moving fast, reacting fast, working against your opponents resistance and more it's better to take what you can get...whether it be top or bottom. That's the reason I cup the heel...it's a similar concept as the armbar and the thumb pointing up. If you control the person heel you'll control their leg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I don't settle for "taking what you can get". That mind set is in direct opposition of one of the primary tenants of Jiu Jitsu "Position before submisison". When it comes to the lower body attacks in BJJ dominate position is often overlooked. "Setting" is the trade off for poor positioning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasculs
The arm bar and and kneer bar example makes my point, if you have the thumb up however your leg positioning sucks (knees open, no downward pressure, or no leg curling your heels to your butt) then the escape is far more efficient. You can have the heel all you want, if your positioning is bad a competent grappler will escape.
We will have to disagree on this point then however. I have finished many kneebars in competition both with my opponent's foot on the top and on the bottom and was able to successfully with the way that I do them and controlling the heel and hugging with my head. And I definitely believe that if I would have try to actually "think" about what side his leg was on then it would not have been as affective or I may have given up space. So I took what I got it was successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
It's ok to have different methods that work. If you're methods work then that is great. Fortunately for me in advanced competition my methods work for me as well.
As with the kneebar..you need to pay attention to leg position and tightness as well.
So for me it's not "settling" if I am still able to finish just as well with the leg on either side. Nothing to do with being a jiu jitsu guy as well.
That's why I would rather be proficient on both sides rather then just on one side. As you see in the video, I finish the knee be bar with the knee on the top and the bottom.
Thanks for the discussion.
Jason
Rear naked chokes without the hooks happen in competition as well, that doesn't make it the best practice. You stated controlling the heel controls the leg, I question your understanding of lower body mechanics, as isolating the hip actually controls the leg, hence the necessity for proper positioning. Controlling the heel doesn't control core mobility, isolating the hip does. The reason for having the foot on the floor side of the head as LiquidRob pointed out is to add rotation/"wringing the towel" effect to reduce the opponents range of motion, it also makes the standard sit up and grab the ankle defense more difficult as the foot is now hidden by the head,neck and shoulders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasculs
My international Sambo and Combat Sambo experience and medals against the best leglockers and leglock defenders in the world lends me unique insight as to what works best and what doesn't work against high level competition.
Damn I can't wait until zog comes out to SoCal for a seminar, that is one I wouldn't miss.
You for sure probably have definitely more experience with leg locks both through time and competitively on me. I don't doubt that at all. The reason I'm not bringing up hip control is because the discussion here is based on whether the foot should be on the bottom or top of the head. My statements as of now (because you never know I may experiment and find you may be completely right) is that it isn't something that should just be ruled out as wrong if I am in a position where I still get good control of my opponents leg regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I'll play around with your points and then see if my views change any. Thank you
I really enjoy discussions like this. It helps me understand how a technique works. Two different opinions, interesting discussion. Seems like leg lock discussion tend to get the most heated. Why is that? Anybody remember the Ultimate Leg Lock topic. That got so heated
There is never right or wrong, just what has a higher % success of succeeding. That is what always dictates my choices. For me the highest % finish for knee bars as of right now is tying up the second leg as well. This changed just over a year ago for me when my Sambo Coach Igor Yakimov, came back from Russia saying all the current top dogs are now using it. Essentially when you have the kneebar on and your opponent tries to kick your grip off with the other leg you bind the 2nd leg (So you have both of their legs parallel). This greatly limits their chance of escaping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasculs
That thread got heated because a few guys new to leglocks wanted to be the big dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Smith
Leg Locks = Controversy!
Is that what it was? I couldnt remember why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
This is a great discussion.
You know of any videos on YouTube showing tying up the second leg? I'd like to check out and play around with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Pretty cool! Hate leg locks, sorest thing to get caught in!
Awesome video good details.
Whoa jason scully and herzog battling it out for supremacy on Leg Lock knowledge!! this is awesome, lol just kidding. Its great to see high level guys respectfully debate on stuff like this be it BJJ or anything in particular unlike other times when wanna be or newbs try to have debates when neither party know anything
Great having you on this forum Jason. Your video style is beautiful, it's bad ass to see all those techs butted up together like that, I watch all your nogi vids, keep it up :)
Thanks EddieQuote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
This^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel"EL DIABLO"Diaz
ALso when are we gonna see Zog make a westcoast apperance? COME TO CALI and do a seminar already!