10th planet in a non 10th planet class.

hey so i had an awkward couple of moments lately training at the school im in. first time, they were showing twister side except they wernt trapping the opposite side arm up behind them and they were missing some other things that are good to look for like making sure your turning on your side and keeping everything tight up top etc and having your butt in their shoulder and your knee on their hip for control etc. anyway there were problems and stupidly without thinking i mentioned that you can also do it the right way. the coach had a talk to me afterwards and i admit that was my bad, i shouldnt have interuppted etc but then a couple of weeks ago one of the trainers is teaching an omaplata and says you go from the armbar into jiu claw. except hes saying things like you can hook your arms under their legs or you just stretch your legs and try sitting up to control the neck and your hand that is next to their body always has to control the wrist.

im not a pro but they keep on using tenth planet names but different techniques, does anyone have any advice (maybe from ronins) on what they do if this ever happens to them. i dont want to be disrespectful to a guy that has decades of experience but he doesnt seem to have picked up the new little improvements that have advanced jiu jitsu to where it is now. if there is a way to do a technique better i want the guys i train with to know it cos they are serious mma fighters and ive already seem some of them lose because they didnt use the technique properly.

anyway if anyoen can help it would be appreciated, i know i write heaps when i post but i hope people can put up with it.

:D

Well if you dont trap the arm with twister side it can lead to a kimura grip, or if you do trap it and they reach through.

Find a gym where the coaches know what they are talking about?

Might have been kinda rude to inturupt him like that though...

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Originally Posted by Ryan Brick

Well if you dont trap the arm with twister side it can lead to a kimura grip, or if you do trap it and they reach through.

Find a gym where the coaches know what they are talking about?

Might have been kinda rude to inturupt him like that though...

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i waitted until he was finished explaining and everything but yeah still felt awkward. problem is in new zealand there really isnt a no gi grappling scene. theres the basic stuff for the mam guys and theres gi stuff who look at you like you have lepracy if you mention no gi. it was more with the jiu claw that bothered me. as far as im aware that is a term that eddie gave it and really focuses on controlling, and grabbing the leg off the other side so you can atleast control their roll or stop it. the trainer was just ignoring it completly.

Next time bite your tongue :)

I understand you don't wanna be disrespectful but at the same time if he is giving students the wrong information to these guys, you gotta think informing these guys that he is wrong to help them in the long run is the right thing to do, even at the cost of looking disrepectful.

Ps you could look at it another way and say the teacher is disrespecting his student by teaching them something he doesn't even know properly.

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Originally Posted by Martin Campbell

I understand you don't wanna be disrespectful but at the same time if he is giving students the wrong information to these guys, you gotta think informing these guys that he is wrong to help them in the long run is the right thing to do, even at the cost of looking disrepectful.

Ps you could look at it another way and say the teacher is disrespecting his student by teaching them something he doesn't even know properly.

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thats kind of what im feeling, i mean when he teaches something else, i have no problem with it, and dont get me wrong he is a great teacher. but when he uses 10th planet names for things and shows it wrong i feel it doesnt help anyone and it is bad for the system. its why you get guys grabbing their leg wrong with rubber guard and not holding it tight and trying gogoplatas from mission control and then saying that rubber guard doesnt work.

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Next time bite your tongue :)

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thats what im doing. just feels awkward.

Yeah! It's guys teaching 10pl stuff that don't know technique properly then the students try using it in a roll and it doesn't work, then they start bad mouthing 10pl and anyone associated with it.

It's just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Martin Campbell

Yeah! It's guys teaching 10pl stuff that don't know technique properly then the students try using it in a roll and it doesn't work, then they start bad mouthing 10pl and anyone associated with it.

It's just ridiculous.

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just to make sure, these guys are good guys, its not like i wanna say theyre a bad gym, they even admit that tpjj works, they jsut think you have to be made out of rubber to do it. its just when it comes to tpjj, i feel like they should be doing it right.

This is difficult. But until you can smash them with it, not really much weight behind statement. But Im with ya, it's annoying when they just glance at the system and wanna show it in class next day. They skip the details and end up with modified improvised bastard version of the tech. And as for someone who finds the most success from the details, it's annoying as shit to watch them butcher the system.

Just take comfort in the fact that you're in the know.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

This is difficult. But until you can smash them with it, not really much weight behind statement. But Im with ya, it's annoying when they just glance at the system and wanna show it in class next day. They skip the details and end up with modified improvised bastard version of the tech. And as for someone who finds the most success from the details, it's annoying as shit to watch them butcher the system.

Just take comfort in the fact that you're in the know.

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maybe thats why jiu claw annoyed me so much, thats one of my go to moves, i generally get gogo or omaplata on the guys about 4 times a training session, ive been working on it for about 7-8 months. and yeah im really picky about details. maybe its just as much me as it is them.

Has this happened to any other ronins? what did you do?

I still bite my tongue at times. I trained with them consistently until we had mutual respect and they collaborate with me now. If you like the gym, earn their respect and it shouldn't be a problem.

If you can consistently beat your instructor during the first couple years of training, I would have a hard time paying for that.

I would prob just try it first as he tried, and then in between do it the way u know it should be done, and then during rolling is where u show the way u know it works better (as it should). I thing u really have to go on a case by case basis on whether to speak/chime in when someone is teaching vs waiting until drilling to add ur two cents. Either way, hope things work out.

Sit down with a six pack with him and watch the Twister DVD together.

Bullshit! If it is wrong, address it. There is nothing worse than a charlatan trying to pass a piece of shit off as gold. And if he is just doing it wrong because he doesn't understand it, leave the gym. If he doesn't take the time to learn it correctly before he teaches it to you, he doesn't give a shit about you. No self-respecting instructor would teach their students something they haven't put the time in to learn for themself.

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

Sit down with a pack with him and watch the Twister DVD together.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by HerbChao

I would prob just try it first as he tried, and then in between do it the way u know it should be done, and then during rolling is where u show the way u know it works better (as it should). I thing u really have to go on a case by case basis on whether to speak/chime in when someone is teaching vs waiting until drilling to add ur two cents. Either way, hope things work out.

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pretty much

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

I still bite my tongue at times. I trained with them consistently until we had mutual respect and they collaborate with me now. If you like the gym, earn their respect and it shouldn't be a problem.

If you can consistently beat your instructor during the first couple years of training, I would have a hard time paying for that.

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he cant roll, or doesnt want to (not sure) but against other people in my gym, size wise, msot of the guys there have about 10-40 kgs on me, but i guess im one the guys with decent mat time.

and yeah im working with these guys and im hoping eventually i earn their respect, theyre open to me working towards getting a hotbox and eventually maybe a affiliate open, but they are kind of connected to behring jiu jitsu, so there is a lot of trying to not step on toes, loyalty wise.

i reckon all i can do from here is keep on working on it. represent 10th p until they have to accept it. im stubborn and passionate enough about 10th planet nd jiu jitsu to not let it stop me. :)

thanks guys for giving advice, helped a lot

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Bullshit! If it is wrong, address it. There is nothing worse than a charlatan trying to pass a piece of shit off as gold. And if he is just doing it wrong because he doesn't understand it, leave the gym. If he doesn't take the time to learn it correctly before he teaches it to you, he doesn't give a shit about you. No self-respecting instructor would teach their students something they haven't put the time in to learn for themself.

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the thing is, it does still work, but the problem is there are better proven ways to do it. its hard to say hey that doesnt work when he just shows it as working. i get what you mean but that added into the fact that there isnt any other places to train no gi here, means im just gunna work through it until i convince them 10th p way is better.

Doesn't roll!?

He doesn't roll? Ever? Hmmm.

Is this a gi guy, teaching no-gi, that'll only roll with gi on? Got a couple of those around this area...

Agreed!! Live and learn homie

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Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

Next time bite your tongue :)

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Bullshit! If it is wrong, address it. There is nothing worse than a charlatan trying to pass a piece of shit off as gold. And if he is just doing it wrong because he doesn't understand it, leave the gym. If he doesn't take the time to learn it correctly before he teaches it to you, he doesn't give a shit about you. No self-respecting instructor would teach their students something they haven't put the time in to learn for themself.

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I was going to say just listen to him and don't say anything, so that you have access to guys you can roll with but ^above^.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Doesn't roll!?

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i think he may sometimes, i know that he used to roll and well, but i think its his knees that are pretty stuffed. when it comes to older techniques he knows everything, its amazing some of the things he shows and he does aim it completly for mma so i understnd that somethings he shows are different to full no gi jiu jitsu, but then he just doesnt do all the new stuff, especially coming out of 10th planet, right.

its just a weird situation, as far as i can see, im gunna shut my mouth until i get their respect then il insert 10th planet into their game. im already getting lots of them to stop doing things like leaving their arms on the ground when theyre in my guard so i can see it slowly working.

oh and scott, he bases it around mma and i know he does a lot of no gi but as far as im aware he also has done gi as well as quite a bit of various stand up, hes a black belt in something.

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Originally Posted by Isaac Atley

i think he may sometimes, i know that he used to roll and well, but i think its his knees that are pretty stuffed. when it comes to older techniques he knows everything, its amazing some of the things he shows and he does aim it completly for mma so i understnd that somethings he shows are different to full no gi jiu jitsu, but then he just doesnt do all the new stuff, especially coming out of 10th planet, right.

its just a weird situation, as far as i can see, im gunna shut my mouth until i get their respect then il insert 10th planet into their game. im already getting lots of them to stop doing things like leaving their arms on the ground when theyre in my guard so i can see it slowly working.

oh and scott, he bases it around mma and i know he does a lot of no gi but as far as im aware he also has done gi as well as quite a bit of various stand up, hes a black belt in something.

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Spidey senses tingling

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Spidey senses tingling

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Herzog, why you so funny?

Hmm.. i agree with zog. Billy robinson would limp around the mats with a cane, and still whip your ass... Even still probably! Lol

Just do your thing and don't worry about the instructors teaching. The best thing to do is find a gym you match better with or like Eddie said bite your tongue. There's ways you can bring up a small detail to make the technique better. "Hey check this out. I started doing this technique this way and its really working for me. What do you think?" Then you're not undermining your instructor and making it sound like you're asking advice.