why are some Bjj schools so resistant to allow 10th planet's system on there mats....

I just starting following Eddie about a year ago and i have been amazed at 10th planet and the system that I FEEL is helping the future of jiu jitsu. I noticed some schools don't allow some of the "systems" techniques or forbid any type of 10th planet exercises. Can anyone clarify why it might be such an issue with some schools? In my opinion i love all aspects of jiu jitsu (gi or no gi) but the best thing to do (for me) is to soak up as much information as possible to help myself and evolve as the sport evolves.

I just want to have a better understanding!

Thanks for any advice or input

some schools don't allow cranks so that rules out a lot of options from the truck, and it rules out electric chair etc. I think it just vary's school to school

oo i see, i just want to try to use the techniques, there awesome and i'm slowly learning the names and what they look like so i can try and apply them to my game. I don't want to roll with someone and go for a electric chair and get yelled at for it lol. That's my biggest concern.

I find a lot of flat out hate for Eddie/10th P stuff. MMA or JKD guys are usually cool,but some schools are as traditional as it gets... All the evolution of BJJ ways finished by the time they got to BJJ. we are now using a variation of side control that closely resembles Kesa Gatame. Why? Our head guy loves armbars and feels this is the ultimate evolution of side control. I like options. I use the 10th P half guard game and am branching out into Twister side control stuff. I here alot about how this "Eddie Bravo shit" doesn't work. "Only do Gi,it will improve your attribites". "That takes too much flexability". Anything new or different is written off...

look at the thread BJJ Black Belt on 10thplanet JJ. If only everyone had that view

I think eddie mentioned it in his book why there can be alot of resistants. Eddie was the first to explicitly say that gi for mma is not as good as training no gi. AS MMA is quite big, i imagine it is cutting into alot of people's profit if eddie's opinion becomes the accepted philosophy. That's how i think it initially started.But these days, its just spiralled out of controll and people hate on it for the sake of it, its almost fashionable in bjj to not like eddie's system.

However, I can see why the Gracie's and the major Gi schools would have initially been dismissive of eddie in 2003. I don't mean this as an attack, i'm just trying to look at the other side of the coin, so to speak. Eddie did make alot of his success over the tapping royler logo . He did only compete once in abudabi and didn't return the following year. He wasn't a marelo garcia type character who won 5 adcc, and it was undeniable that marcelo's system worked.

I personally don't think it takes anything away from eddie. Anyone who is objective can look at eddie's arguements and see the simple logic behind his approach. One often finds the best teachers aren't always the best are there sport. Golf is a perfect example of this. Teaching is a totally different skill to being good at the sport. that's my 2 cents anyways.

is eddie ever going to compete again? Even though I dont think he has anything to prove by competing It'd be rad to see the best 10th planeteer dominate the rest of the no gi jj guys.

fear of change and ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

fear of change and ignorance.

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+1

Fear of what is new bjj has been around for what 50 years imagine if you have been studying for 15 years and you go up against a 10th planet purple belt or even a high blue and they wipe the floor with you could you imagine going home that night sitting down and thinking what the fuck have i done with my life for 15 years i would be scared knowing that this new kinda jits has only been around for not even 10+years (correct me if i'm wrong please ) and it kicked my arse man it mind blowing thats my take on it

I find that anytime that I mention that I train 10th planet, that I get a very dismissive attitude. traditional bjj guys will always argue that eddie didnt reinvent juijitsu and that every thing he does comes from his bjj training. And then the Royler argument is always the same that eddie couldnt do it again if he tried. that his win was a fluke and that he used a traditional triangle choke, not 10th planet. I have been in martial arts for a long time and I have not been this excited to be involved with one as much as this one. the simplistic approach to teaching and openness to learning from others is what attracts me to this style above traditional bjj. Not discounting traditional bjj, but rather choosing to take the road less traveled. And as the system grows, options and opportunities will arise for everyone to make that same choice. I'm fortunate enough to have a couple of schools within reach that I can drive a couple of times a month to get my school training in, and at my school, I teach the basics and drill them like crazy. And until a school opens near every one else, just keep drilling and try to get to the seminars as close to you as possible, for any chance to train with instructors will greatly enlighten you and dispel the myths about the ineffectiveness of 10th planet.

I am curious about the techniques "not being allowed". I have been around BJJ a long time, and like some of Eddies stuff (the half guard stuff I think is great, the other stuff I dont so as much, but its because I dont use closed guard too much) and have never had a single person involved with BJJ for extended periods of time decry the 10th planet stuff.

What I HAVE seen, are some of Bravo's fans way over-inflating some things and more or less start arguments about best and worst, etc. I also have never met a closed minded "traditional" BJJ guy, as in and of itself, the very nature of BJJ isnt traditional, but a constant series of learning, adapting, and changing.

I feel alot of this so called friction comes from white and blue belt level guys from each side trying to be "better" when at the top, the high end guys are open minded to anything that works consistently and can be done to achieve repeatable results.

i just stated this on fb the other day.....to compete at that level you have to train hours a day...and focus soley on your game..

eddie has classes he teaches,a martial arts association he is building,training figters,giveing seminars all over te world'writeing books,multiple music projects...he is striveing to build something..not trying to win a cheap plastic medal or prove someting he has already proven

in a hundred years no one will care about eddie vs royler II....but in a hunded years when some kid walks into a 10th planet school...thats saying something

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Originally Posted by Clinton Lawrence

Fear of what is new bjj has been around for what 50 years imagine if you have been studying for 15 years and you go up against a 10th planet purple belt or even a high blue and they wipe the floor with you could you imagine going home that night sitting down and thinking what the fuck have i done with my life for 15 years i would be scared knowing that this new kinda jits has only been around for not even 10+years (correct me if i'm wrong please ) and it kicked my arse man it mind blowing thats my take on it

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I think you dont understand the folks who are in BJJ for the long haul if you think anyone would feel that way after getting caught grappling. They would probably take a look at the things that they ran into and work on countering them, or learning more about them. Folks who think like what you just described are of the white and blue belt ranks.....folks who are still trying to count taps in training or too worried about not getting tapped. Also, a guy who is a real blue belt (couple years of training) is probably going to get his ass handed to him by anyone doing BJJ for 15 years consistently.

im really glad at this feedback guys, it means a lot. like i said in my opinion i don't feel there should be any right or wrong way of training. The only way we are going to get better is by soaking in everything and learning different styles. I just want to learn the system and be familiar with it, not because it might be better but because it will help me become more aware of the evolving sport.

I did see the video on "bjj view on 10th planet" and that was perfect, it was everything i wanted to hear. no gi isn't better or worse then the gi and bring everything on the mat. I believe he said it perfect when he was talking about the "50/50 guard" and stated....."people are looking to defend it, hell i just want to learn it."

One thing we sometimes forget, is that the School is also a business. Why would they sell a different product? Instead of thinking, "If I'm open minded to it, I can attract more students" they don't allow it for fear the students will leave.

Look at how through out history people have feared change and went to the extremes to avoid it. I mean for many years people thought the world was flat, and if u didnt agree u were sent to jail or banished from town.The also believed that the earth was the center of the universe and the sun revolved around the earth. When someone brought up a new idea they recieved lots of fury and anger was focused towards them. Alot of people just dont go well with change. I can understand that it would be hard to practice something and go by it for your whole life than bam time to change it up and learn something new. But in my opinion it is more wise to adapt to the change faster and then be on board and have the most experience with it so when it does finally become widely excepted you have the upper hand and are already adjusted.

Let's face it,it's all about the Gi. You take a decent wrestler,put him in with a BJJ purple,but take the Gi off,he get's tapped maybe once. Put that same guy in a gi,he gets tapped 20 times. Gi and NoGi are 2 seperate,but related sports. I really think some BJJ-ers regard the Gi as the source of their power! Not everyone in "traditional" Jiu Jitsu hates 10th p,but at the school I train at,the Rubber Guard hate runs deep.

"From the old you gain security,but from the new you gain the flow"=Bruce Lee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoPiJOubR-4

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Originally Posted by stlnl

What I HAVE seen, are some of Bravo's fans way over-inflating some things and more or less start arguments about best and worst, etc. I also have never met a closed minded "traditional" BJJ guy, as in and of itself, the very nature of BJJ isnt traditional, but a constant series of learning, adapting, and changing.
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It's a bit silly just to callout bravo fans. I will agree that lower belts are more likely to argue but I have heard many reports of sensei's dismissing 10th planet. Obviuosly I carn't see the context of the arguements you have had, but considering you have said they are "way over-inflating some things" but at the same time have never tried alot of the 10th planet techniques seems a little suspect that maybe you don't understand the full implications of a technique. I don't want to turn this into a flame war but if you want a nice rational discussion that would be cool.

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Originally Posted by watty31

It's a bit silly just to callout bravo fans. I will agree that lower belts are more likely to argue but I have heard many reports of sensei's dismissing 10th planet. Obviuosly I carn't see the context of the arguements you have had, but considering you have said they are "way over-inflating some things" but at the same time have never tried alot of the 10th planet techniques seems a little suspect that maybe you don't understand the full implications of a technique. I don't want to turn this into a flame war but if you want a nice rational discussion that would be cool.

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Oh make no mistake, I didnt mean to call out only Bravo folks, the BJJ guys have plenty who say things just as foolish. The low belts on both sides of the discussion IME are the ones "creating" all the controversey. When I say bravo folks exaggerate, its as if they feel by beating Royler, Eddie somehow nullified all the BJJ that came before. That rather rash statement sort of ignores that eddie spent a huge amount of time getting a "traditional" BJJ black belt, and was trounced in his ADCC match after the one he had with royler.

He has some good stuff, and is an innovator. I never said a thing about his techniques, other than endorsed the ones I use. However, something else that seems big in 10th planet way of thinking, is alot of the guard stuff requires some specific physical attributes. The biggest strength of BJJ, whether we talk "traditional" or 10th planet, is being able to take the tools that fit you and use them to best complement your game. If all the tools start to require a narrow set of physical parameters to perform.......it begins to limit the art, regardless of what the art is IMO.

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Originally Posted by D.Stachovak

Let's face it,it's all about the Gi. You take a decent wrestler,put him in with a BJJ purple,but take the Gi off,he get's tapped maybe once. Put that same guy in a gi,he gets tapped 20 times. Gi and NoGi are 2 seperate,but related sports. I really think some BJJ-ers regard the Gi as the source of their power! Not everyone in "traditional" Jiu Jitsu hates 10th p,but at the school I train at,the Rubber Guard hate runs deep.

"From the old you gain security,but from the new you gain the flow"=Bruce Lee

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I dont know that I agree with this. I roll with guys who have started as D1 wrestlers for 4 years, and can catch them 3-5 times in 5 mins, and I am a purple belt. This is with no gi.

i think on a smaller scale some of the old schoolers dont like eddie because of his open avocation of marijuana and maybe even conspiracy theories topped with what has already been mentioned.

fact is the system works and i think it scares them that eddie also has a "cool" factor with the younger generations.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

I dont know that I agree with this. I roll with guys who have started as D1 wrestlers for 4 years, and can catch them 3-5 times in 5 mins, and I am a purple belt. This is with no gi.

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I see your point,but maybe you aren't as attached to the Gi as some schools. Things have changed quite a bit in the world,I've come to realize that maybe some guys I train with are stuck in th 90's...

I'm not quitting the school I'm at,but it's time to start putting some miles on the car and expanding my mind! 3 hours east of me= 10th P Minnesota,3 hours south of me = Duke Roufus Gym (Red Schaefer). See what I'm sayin'?

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Originally Posted by D.Stachovak

I see your point,but maybe you aren't as attached to the Gi as some schools. Things have changed quite a bit in the world,I've come to realize that maybe some guys I train with are stuck in th 90's...

I'm not quitting the school I'm at,but it's time to start putting some miles on the car and expanding my mind! 3 hours east of me= 10th P Minnesota,3 hours south of me = Duke Roufus Gym (Red Schaefer). See what I'm sayin'?

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Thing is I dont like the thing, I *DO* however wear it to make me better all around as a grappler and at BJJ, I also do like some of the kimono specific things it has, but I also train a good deal without it. However in all honesty I dont do anything with it, that I cant do without it, except maybe a triangle, by legs are pretty short and thick, and I am much better at getting them without a gi than with one.

I feel, folks are going to be their best learning with it and without it. Lots of people are on one side of that fence or the other though, I prefer to learn both.

stlnl = A TROLL!!!!!

I fail to see anything I said that is even remotely trollish. But I guess it depends on perception I guess.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

The biggest strength of BJJ, whether we talk "traditional" or 10th planet, is being able to take the tools that fit you and use them to best complement your game. If all the tools start to require a narrow set of physical parameters to perform.......it begins to limit the art, regardless of what the art is IMO.

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Im one of the least naturally flexible people alive. Eddie said stretch in front of the TV, be diligent about your flexibility. I have been. It took about three months to go from as stiff as a plank to mates I roll with bitching about my flexible legs.

I might only be a white belt, but its pretty obvious to me that increasing your flexibility increases the number of things you can do. Iv heard the line that 10th Planet stuff is limited to a handful of people with the right physical attributes, but its complete nonsense. If I can do it, anyone can.

All Eddie asked was that you spend some time stretching a squeezing. If an instructor doesnt ask you to do that, who is really the one limiting the art?

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Originally Posted by Tim Elliott

Im one of the least naturally flexible people alive. Eddie said stretch in front of the TV, be diligent about your flexibility. I have been. It took about three months to go from as stiff as a plank to mates I roll with bitching about my flexible legs.

I might only be a white belt, but its pretty obvious to me that increasing your flexibility increases the number of things you can do. Iv heard the line that 10th Planet stuff is limited to a handful of people with the right physical attributes, but its complete nonsense. If I can do it, anyone can.

All Eddie asked was that you spend some time stretching a squeezing. If an instructor doesnt ask you to do that, who is really the one limiting the art?

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I am very flexible as well, as much from years of kickboxing as well as BJJ, however, I do have a badly scarred ACL from a partial tear I got years ago. My knee, isnt going to do some things, its also the reason I dont use alot of closed guard. Flexibility isnt the issue for me. The fact that my leg just isnt going to do some things, and alot of them are tied into the closed guard work, sort of creates a problem.

well..I believe that it´s most the old school BJJ academies (some how the Gracie´s, respect Helio). But they are also against everything outside the Gracie box! don´t get me wrong, there´s always Gracie academies that could have a opened mind. It´s at least not the second generation Gracie´s. If you check the Mendes brothers! they do a lot of fu***d up stuff.

I have a BJJ academy! I´m so opened minded that I´m doing GI version of the 10th system (my perspective)

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Originally Posted by Magnus Hansson

well..I believe that it´s most the old school BJJ academies (some how the Gracie´s, respect Helio). But they are also against everything outside the Gracie box! don´t get me wrong, there´s always Gracie academies that could have a opened mind. It´s at least not the second generation Gracie´s. If you check the Mendes brothers! they do a lot of fu***d up stuff.

I have a BJJ academy! I´m so opened minded that I´m doing GI version of the 10th system (my perspective)

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If you mean Rorian, and his guys, I dont disagree with you. But I have trained with and met several Black belts, under Various guys, that seem pretty open minded about 10th planet stuff. At the same time, I hear alot of lip from beginners on both sides. Like I said I think its the low end folks that create, and perpetuate some of this stuff. Most of them tend to repeat what someone else told them, instead of actual personal interaction with the black belt level people.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

I think you dont understand the folks who are in BJJ for the long haul if you think anyone would feel that way after getting caught grappling. They would probably take a look at the things that they ran into and work on countering them, or learning more about them. Folks who think like what you just described are of the white and blue belt ranks.....folks who are still trying to count taps in training or too worried about not getting tapped. Also, a guy who is a real blue belt (couple years of training) is probably going to get his ass handed to him by anyone doing BJJ for 15 years consistently.

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it was a hypothetical situation hence the 'imagine' people fear what they don't understand and people also don't like change i roll with tradition bjj players and cage fighters alike i get tapped more times then i can remember but i tap alot of guys as well with tradition bjj and a lot of 10th planet stuff and its always the the 10th planet stuff people ask me about afterwards also eddie said some stuff about the gi the traditional guys didn't/don't like Renato is prime example

You are right about the bloodline:-) I always tell my students that when you have a teacher that says This is Right and that is Wrong, then you know that your teacher is not opened minded. In the end its more or less the same with some variations,timing,combos,details and etc. 10th planet system is very unique,complex and unortodox, so it´s easy to hate or love.
I Loooove it:-)

It's probably a money issue, maybe if Eddie would've called his schools 10th planet Brazillian jiu-jitsu their wouldn't be so much resistance, just a thought.

Yeah! you never know whats going on in peoples minds.

Now that I think about it, Eddie is the leader of the movement to change BJJ to American jiu-jitsu.

Maybe not AJJ, but something like flower child jiu-jitsu, which is actually beautiful. But with all these advertisements I'm starting to think it's all about the money:)

My instructor lets me roll however I want. It helps my game and my classmates