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My question is, when beginning from the back, and transitioning off into the the twister.. Is there any advantage the Twister presents over Bas Rutten's Exorcist crank? (Roughly the same as the Twister, only you dont put the arm behind your head, and you crank more on the jaw than the top of the head.)
I was just wondering if either had pros/cons compared to the other, or if it was just a matter of preference.
(Clip of Bas teaching "The Exorcist Crank" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGqvooInJEM
The Twister opens up way more options and different submissions, this just seems like a second option for a failed RNC. I suppose they can both be used effectively :)
Neck cranks are illegal in most tournaments. Twisters are not.
I guess if u make a crank with a choke your good.
I think most competitions that outlaw neck cranks also outlaw spinal cranks.
Seems like a good MMA option if you can't sink a choke. It's all neck though.
Twister I believe has more torque and more options. It's pretty situational. But I figure, if you're gonna tie up one leg in that exorcist crank, may as well grapevine it. Short cut to the neck crank, or work for a full twister. I like this video. Options are always nice.
There is definitely more control in the twister. More control=higher percentage.
And what about his hands? Two hands to fight off the crank. Idk. Seems like a silly option but bas rutten is a killer so idk :)
This is the first time I've seen this. I really don't see anybody fighting off that crank even if they have 2 free hands mainly because as soon as the gable is put on and you pressure, fighting it would be near impossible (Because of your hook controlling the hip and essentially elongating the spine).
..Yeah that doesn't make much sense in text form. At least I know what I'm trying to say. Another good option! Don't expect to be able to use this in many tournaments though.
I use the shit outta this haha gently tho, they usually turn back to relieve pressure and most of the time I can wedge the blade of my forearm in for a short choke by using my head to lever theirs away opening the neck a tiny bit. There is a quick chance to ditch the crank and grab baseball bat control while their hands come up to defend as well but I don't usually go to that unless they are a beast at hand fighting. Oh and when using the single leg grapevine from the back like that you can avoid a lot of the hand fight by hiding your over under grip in their armpit instead of sticking it in the middle of their chest.
The twister comes from truck which is a differen control position that also leads to many other submissions.
This move comes from the back.
Both will be illegal in most tournaments ad you should probably know both for tournaments like NAGA and mma.
You can get a twister from back control. That's how Korean zombie got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Brick
Is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxMSsmhFGpM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Yes. Listen to the commentary. He started from belly up back control with both hooks, switched to a grapevine, then worked the twister. Watch the whole fight.
I've been put in the twsiter from back before, a few times. Grapevine with arm control is all it takes to start that path.
An awesome surprise for people that think you only want to choke them. Aoki has finished a couple people with this technique. That is where I got it from first, then I found this same Bas vid while researching it. I like Aokis details a little bit more, but different options are always good. Not sure about Pro/Cons. Maybe just less movements the transitioning to Twister. I guess depends on what your opponent is doing to defend your back control or rnc
But once you gapevine the leg arent you playing the truck game?
I know that you can lock the truck and go to twister from back but to finish a twister from back for me would mean I have 2 hooks in.
I view it as a seperate position because if I just grapevine your leg I dont get points for back grab so I think of the grapevine as one thing and back as another. So it would be like if I had you in side switched to mount and armbared you and you said it came from side because that's where I started the transition sequence.
I dont know maybe Im wrong... I do understand your point the only difference in our opinion is I think when he switched to grapevine he changed positions and then went to baseball bat control to get the twister.
One grapevine doesn't make a truck. If I have your back with a grapevine, I don't have the truck. I have your back. Forget points. It's about position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Brick
Both the twister from the back and Bas' crank come from the back. Then they both scoop one leg the same way. Then they both isolate the leg. The only difference is that Bas doesn't grapevine (which he should for better control). So to say one comes from the back and the other doesn't isn't 100% right. They both start the same. In the end it's up to you: finish with the crank? Or go to twister? But they both literally start the same way.
Did you get twistered from the back, or transitioned into the truck then twistered immediately? Semantics. The Chevy is the name of the transition.
I heart neckcranks and jaw crushes. You can't block a choke with your face. Thank god for tapping because these type moves are the scariest real life scenario. If he tucks his chin, I'm gonna put my radius through your teeth and crush your jaw before snappin your neck. Some gory ass shit if you think about it.
I love Bas, but zero % of my game is based around his strategies. Not because they don't work, rather than somebody usually has a better version.
Somebody finally said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
Dont take it out on me because he tucked his chin..Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
I have a hard time taking grappling strategy from a man who is notorious for whooping guys asses on the feet. Not saying he doesn't know what he is talking about, but Bobby summed it up the best. I would transition to the Truck and try the Twister, it is a higher percentage move, to many escapes from belly up back control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Perfect rhetoric gold. Funny shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Allen
Still lol'n.
I think the truck is a pretty clear postion.
http://prommatraining.com/wp-content...-2-300x200.png
If you have someones back and you grapevine the leg you can twister them without first transitioning to the truck.
Looks like a solid fail option from twister from the back for mma.