Just wondering where some of you guys stand with men and women rolling with each other on the mats.we are having a bit of a dilemma with men and women rolling together at the gym I train at. Any advice or info would help, so let me know. Thanks.
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Just wondering where some of you guys stand with men and women rolling with each other on the mats.we are having a bit of a dilemma with men and women rolling together at the gym I train at. Any advice or info would help, so let me know. Thanks.
Who doesn't want to roll with who?
I do not refuse anybody who is clean and trying to roll. That is my stance.
If the guys didn't roll with me then I'd have no one to roll with at our gym. My stance is that there are some guys who are newer that I won't roll with because egos and everything may get in the way. That's how i was hurt at my old gym because some guys cant handle being tapped by a girl so they force submissions too far. Otherwise, I've roll with almost everyone at my gym at some point.
Some guys don't want to roll with the girls, they feel that it is disrespectful.
I like woman.
Wait what was the question?
Then they are stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBaut
You are always going to have someone not wanting to roll with someone...whether it's girl vs girl (not girl on girl!!), boy vs boy, girl vs boy). I don't think I understand the "disrespectful" part of it though - That seems a little odd. Usually guys don't roll with girls because they are either afraid to get beat by a girl or they feel they are getting screw out of having a "good" round (girls are too easy). If I guy ever says he doesn't want to roll with a girl because he "doesn't want to hurt her", that's BS. That is easily controlled.
Some little guys dont like rolling with huge dudes either.
Its a comfort zone thing
Ideally everyone rolls with everyone just try and take baby steps in that direction
At 10th Planet Vista where I train men and women roll together all the time. It is good for women to roll with men. It help them learn how to deal with someone that is stronger than they are. While it helps the man to roll with a woman to learn how to use their technique over strength.
In the disrespectful aspect, is that they don't believe that they would not benefit from rolling with a woman and it is even disrespectful to even ask them to. Me personally it doesn't matter to me I roll with everyone.
We're lucky(?) enough to have four girls and most of the time at least two in every class, they roll with everyone for the most part. Generally avoid brand new people until someone else rolls with them and sees they aren't a spaz, which is something guys do as well. I've never heard anyone say anything about it, generally it's considered just another roll.
Wow... In my opinion they should leave martial arts behind right now. They need to check their ego at the door and realize that it isn't all about what "they" are getting out of it. What they are saying is the equivalent to Eddie or Marcelo refusing to roll with them because it would not benefit them as high level black belts.
I've rolled with really high level girls that were ligther than me, and been tapped repeadetly.. I've rolled with girls that just plain suck at grappling too. Doesn't matter to me. Everyone is in the gym to learn self defense, and a sport.
Provided a man has had a girlfriend at some point in his life, then physical contact with a woman shouldn't be that big of a deal. It's not a sexual scenario either. When you grapple you focus on winning and defending, it's a pretty pure thing.
It's a non-issue to me.
The very idea of people not wanting to roll with another person because that person is of another sex just seems beyond weird, and retarded if you ask me.
I could understand it if said person belonged to a very strict religious group, but that wouldn't make it any less stupid.
I guess there could be several reasons, but I think the main ones would be ego or insecurity.
A friend of mine met a girl in a match a few weeks ago, and he asked me; "Omg Joachim, I'm competing against a girl, what do I do? Fuck!"
I told him; Do as you always do. Don't loose, don't go lighter, don't go harder, just get her and that's that. No biting, scratching,tit-slapping or cunt-punts! :)
She had very little grappling expirience, so he won easily. I still don't get what the big deal was. We automatically asume that girls are inferior, but in grappling that's not always the case. There are fewer girls, and even fewer that are really competent, but at the end of the day, in the same weight class, technique and expirience wins.
And if they aren't good enough, that's their problem. No girls are gonna get better by guys rolling too light with them all the time.
That's my take on it. Oh, and if I were a girl and guys at my gym refused to roll with me, I'd be pissed.. wtf.
Amen! Thank you sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Hoff
If I roll with a girl, she's gonna wanna sleep with me. I've accepted this burden and carry it grudgingly. It's not their fault. It's nature. I just try to ignore her obvious overwhelming physical attraction to me and keep our minds on jj. Don't make it awkward ladies. And 37% of dudes.
This is why I wanna roll Rhonda and Miesha. And Gsp. And a goat. At the same time..
Much appreciation for everyone's contribution on the subject.
You poor bastard.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
You can have Miesha, GSP, and even the goat. But Ronda is mine.
I'm not greedy.
Giggity.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
I've got a great new video camera too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael Kaulig
And I wasn't suggesting anything, I also like the color blue.
Sometimes I just like to throw random facts out there.
I'm allergic to bananas and elephants have 4 knees.
See bobby completely understands. Penis.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
That's called Tourette's.
then Tourettes = awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael Kaulig
Rule applies to all: Don't be a dick. Guys who use power to beat women haven't really proven anything. I tend to be lighter with my top game vs females, I don't use too much shoulder pressure from side control, ect. Grappling with women brings an added dimension to those that can be "man enough" to embrace it, IMO.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I'm a big advocate of jiu jitsu training for women, I believe it's the #1 defensive art for all the ladies.
If anybody in my gym was to imply they could gain nothing from rolling with anybody I wouldn't take that very well as it reflects they're only in it for themselves and not the good of the club.
Also if they complained about rolling with the women folk I would probably accuse them of being a 5 yr old scared of cootees and also perhaps being a fag
AMEN bobby,
lol seriously though i agree with what the people are saying. one of the only girls that trains with at the gym is about my size so were always rolling together. shes super attractive, but im not thinking about doing anythign to her while shes got me in a tight armbar and ready to crank. not too much anyway.
i think not rolling with girls is idiotic, i enjoy it way moe than rolling with those dudes that press you into the ground and sit there for 5 minutes or go tasmanian devil on your arse if you get top control. in saying that its probably those guys that dont wanna roll with girls.
technique all the way, strength is ok. rolling with women all day :D
and jason when you say Fag you mean the stockton version of fag which means bitch right?
chicks smell good and give good tehcnical rolls, big dudes stink and give shity rolls, small dudes & chicks are the best training partners
The women at our gym are always thankful because rolling with all people and all sizes gets them ready for tournaments. And its good for the guys because it humbles them a little when they tap to the women, teaching them to never under estimate others.
We don't have any women at our gym for me to relate to this topic, but we do have girls. There are about 3 girls at our gym and Cora is one of them. Sometimes we would get new kids who come from other gym to train as a visitor who doesn't know who she is. They would blast through the rest of the girls and when they get to Cora, they thinking the same thing, ground and pound. They are always super aggressive with the girls, I guess in an effort to please their dad or something. One time this big boy who got about 20 lbs on her, came in and got her in a headlock. Cora was just chill rolling and didn't think he was going to be that aggressive. So he got a headlock on her and start grinding away on her face. I'm sitting there recording everything. Then Cora realize this dude is really taking it serious so she put her hand on his head and slam his head to the mat, took his back. He powers out of it and she rotate under him getting him in guard. Right away she put him in her rubber guard and I saw her grinding her elbow on his chest, not even trying to get to anything else. I know she was mad, so she just grind that elbow on his chest, the boy almost cried. Then her triangle came quick, she hooked his leg and just squeeze, release, squeeze, release, not trying to tap him out. She held him like that until time ran out. I have never seen her like that before. When it ended, the boy's dad yell at him...all I heard was "SHE's a GIRL!!!!" That boy ended coming back and from that day on, he doesn't put up much of a fight anymore when they roll. Its like she broke his spirit or something...:( What I learn is that, its not much of the kid's ego, its the parent's. Kids always want to impress their parents, even when its not good for them to do so.
I think that due to gender stereotypes it is not unusual, unfortunately, for new guys to feel uncomfortable rolling with women. If a guy confides that they have a problem rolling with women, ask why and deal with it based on their response.
If the objection is based on the idea that men aren't supposed to fight with women, that's a benign sort of bigotry that can easily be addressed. Personally, I have a sister who has a heavy right hook so I have never been bothered about it. Also, Felicia Oh kicked my ass when I was a white belt - not that I needed the reinforcement. Still, some of that attitude about women being the weaker sex might carry over. In that case, tell the guy that the class is a team and we all make each other better by working with each other from time to time - and that includes the women in the class.
If a guy said that rolling with women would not help him, um, you could still take the approach above. You might mention that under his logic, there's no reason for a blue belt to roll with him. You could also point out that since he's so big and strong, rolling with women presents a good opportunity for him to stress technique while rolling. Or if you have a girl or woman of Cora's caliber, have him roll with her and tell your ringer to apply pain as needed.
I think pulling back your strength when rolling with women is really only appropriate when you have a significant size advantage. I don't pull back because of the gender, I pull back because of size.
I don't see it as a binign sort of bigotry at all. If anything I think it is a natural tendancy towards chivalry.
I think it is ingrained in men that they should protect women, and rolling with them goes against our natural tendency to protect them from that sort of thing.
It's just a matter of coming to grips with (A) the fact that you are only practicing a martial art and (B) you might get submitted so let your ego be ready for that.
We have one actively attending woman at our club, she is a beginner, and I have rolled with her. She is catching on to Jiu Jitsu and if she keeps it up she will be great at it some day. I don't steam roll her at all, but that is not my style because I don't steam roll anyone ever. But I will roll her anytime she wants.
We both learn from it somehow.
You guys realize this is not a one way street, right? Do you think my ideal partner is a brand new, 130-lb dude? Nope. I am 5’ 9 ½”, 150#, and pretty strong “for a girl”. I train 4 days a week. There are many factors, and many reasons we do and do not want to train with certain people. I think it’s understandable we all want to be challenged in all our rolls, but it’s a total dickhead move to totally shun certain people. The bottom line is to be good partners and good teammates. I rolled with a thirteen year old, 103# girl last night… I just worked a specific tech that I want ace. It was win-win for both of us.
But I do have a story:
A few months ago a guy who had jits experience rolled into our gym. I didn’t/don’t know anything about him other than he was bigger, stronger, and he knew what he was doing. After tech we did round robin rolling (3-minutes rounds, non-stop but a new partner each round). He got paired with me first and actually visibly rolled his eyes at me when he was told he was my partner. (yep, that actually happened). It was game on from that point. We stayed pretty toe-to-toe but I had a good sweep and a couple sub attempts. The match ended in a draw. After class he came up to me and thanked me for the great roll. I hope he always remembers not to stereo type or underestimate.
thisQuote:
Originally Posted by martin.harris
The club I train at (Judo, no official jj around here) is almost half girls so everyone's pretty de sensitized to the issue the OP is having, but one thing your partners might not be realizing is how beneficial it can be for a girl to go against a guy who's significantly bigger than her. We have a green belt girl around 120lbs, and she's used to going against guys who are much taller and heavier than her (170lbs up thru 240). Last tournament only like 5 girls total showed up, and she got paired against a 208lb brown belt. I'm guessing the bigger girl thought it was gonna be an easy match, but our girl played competitively and was actually the more active combatant, eventually the bigger girl got visibly frustrated with our girl and got called for an illegal move and was disqualified from the match. Who knows what would have happened if our girl had only trained with girls her size, but I'm guessing she felt more comfortable going against this beast after having trained almost exclusively with larger guys.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCOHj9t-viE
great points. ive always thought that people that arnt as good as you should be when you use perfect technique, they give you a chance to do everything a blackbelt should do etc. or to try out those new techniques that you cant catch anyone else in. people at the same level as you should be where you get the best rolls, a perfect mix of defending and attacking and as long as you have some experience then movement aswell. people better than you are the ones you learn from and probly learn to defend against. it doesnt bother me at all if the person is a chick or a dude. my trainer in hamburg was a girl and she could kill almsot everyone there. she was almsot scary >(in a good way)Quote:
Originally Posted by scottross
i think it would be as you said and being chivalry etc if we had any intention of hurting someone, i dunn about other people but if youre going in there to smash and hurt your training partners then i cant see you having any after a short time. to look at it another way if we teach them how to defend themselves properly is that not giving them a better chance of survival in the long run instead of expecting them to always have a man around to protect them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurzy
cool story and fair point about the one way street.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael Kaulig
At first, I said that i was really concerned about hurting some of the smaller females in class. During the first drill, where I had to put my hands on the ribs and posture up from guard, my partner grabbed her side and yelled out in pain. I thought I broke her ribs and I freaked out! She started laughing and said "if you're done being scared, could we start the drill?" :D
You guys have been really helpful,I've talked to the guys about their, (what I call their discrimination) and put some of your insights into great use. Some have come around but others I think it's gonna take some time.