Metamoris & Schaub

Obviously the Brendan Schaub vs Cyborg match at Metamoris was not the greatest Jiu Jitsu spectacle ever seen. Schaub is copping a lot of criticism for his tactics and reluctance to engage, however, surely Cyborg could also cop some of the criticism? There were multiple occasions where Cyborg managed to get Schaub in some sort of guard (usually half) but on every occasion he allowed Schaub to escape by either not clinching or not closing his guard. This lack of clinch or closed guard was the very reason Schaub was able to escape back to his feet and then not engage. Eddie has talked many times about the importance of a clinch game and based on this match it seemed to be an area Cyborg is lacking. To expect Schaub to actively jump into his guard and engage would seem to be counter intuitive to Schaub having any chance of winning. Granted, before the match started I couldn't really see a scenario where Schaub was going to be able to submit Cyborg but are we all being a bit harsh in solely blaming Schaub for the non event that was their match? From a personal perspective I was disappointed as I wanted to see a high level jiu jitsu match but I also thought before hand that in Schaub's mind he might have seen surviving as a victory.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth and am happy if people disagree with me.

Here's the footage - well until it gets removed ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEo3GMH66Q8

Schaub was rude as fuck at the post fight presser too. Constantly interrupting and talking over Cyborg. I am not a huge Schaub fan now tbh.

I have never been a big Schaub fan so please don't take my original post as defending him I just don't think it was as straight forward as being his fault alone. In saying that, surely the organisers i.e. Ralek would have had some idea about his tactics before the fight was made official. If he is serious about growing this promotion, which I hope he is as I really like the concept of high level Jiu Jitsu on a regular basis, then fights like this one do nothing to promote it. If they wanted to feature a UFC fighter to promote the event surely there are ton that are more qualified and willing to not just survive. Guys like Vinny, Damian Maia, Toquinho or even (putting my biased Aussie hat on) George Sots.

Marty, you seem like a smart guy who likes to see both sides of the coin. While your point is valid about a missing element to Cyborg's grappling, he shoulders zero blame here. He came to a grappling comp to grapple. He showed a desire to grapple. BS on the other hand did not.

"He didn't want to get in his guard." He shouldnt have signed up. Its a friggin grappling match. Either you'll be in his guard, or you pull guard. He did neither.

"He didn't want to be in his guard." Then pass.


BS signing up to a grappling match (sub only at that) and avoiding grappling is like me signing up for a basketball tourney and telling people not to pass me the ball. It's ridiculous.

BS deserves all the hate and then some.

I think when Cyborg got a hold of him, he should have adjusted his game to make sure BS couldn't back out of guard. BS should have at least gone out on his shield. That was embarrassing for everyone involved. I doubt Rener or Ryron are too proud of that display despite what they say.

We all know Schaub was a sacrificial lamb... no one gave Schaub a chance. Schaub did what he did to survive. Aren't you supposed to just survive vs higher belts? Cyborg is a multiple time gold medalist in BJJ competition. He had 20 minutes to finish schaub in his own world. You cant just lay back and hope someone will agree to play your game. You have to have the ability to enforce your game. I'm not saying that Schaub carried the bushido spirit into battle, but christ that's fucking Cyborg Abreu! Would you willing enter your doom by engaging his guard? Schaub was gonna make him earn it by taking him down, holding him there, and finishing him. Cyborg couldn't do this in 20 minutes. Schaub has 0 submission wins in MMA this was just complete shit matchmaking is what it comes down to. They want to gain fans and put over these BJJ guys by having them beat MMA guys... but christ that match backfired. If they were serious about furthering grappling, then they should be ashamed of that match up. Put Rustam Chsiev in there for the rematch with Cyborg if you want a real exciting no gi match. It's just frustrating that the man that was supposed to be the sacrificial lamb survived the lions den by playing to the rules and everyone blames him for a shit match. There was a lot more wrong with that match than just Schaub. I doubt cyborg would return the favor and step into Schaubs world with him.

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Originally Posted by Hext

Here's the footage - well until it gets removed ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEo3GMH66Q8

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Gotta love the Yakety Axe!

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Originally Posted by Sam Sales

Schaub was rude as fuck at the post fight presser too. Constantly interrupting and talking over Cyborg. I am not a huge Schaub fan now tbh.

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His performance was so terrible, he should be cut from the UFC...and life. Yeah, that too.

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I doubt cyborg would return the favor and step into Schaubs world with him.

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OK so if Cyborg agreed to an mma match then ran for the round and said " he has more experience, I had to play to survive.," would that be acceptable to you? No. BS agreed to a grappling match. If this was just a tourney, fine. But people paid for a super fight. He got paid for a super fight. If I signed up to fight Cyborg and for paid for it, my white belt ass will put up the fight of my life.

There is no excuse for BS. None. If he didn't want to grapple, he shouldn't have signed up.

If i challenged Michael Jordan and just held the ball with no intention to dribble, people wouldn't blame Jordan for not being able to steal the ball.

Schaub wasted cyborgs time, the crowds, and the people watching at home. Whats worse, is that matches like that drive people away from becoming fans.

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Originally Posted by Tom Carbone

Schaub wasted cyborgs time, the crowds, and the people watching at home. Whats worse, is that matches like that drive people away from becoming fans.

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+1,000 Just because he held Lavar Johnson down for three rounds does not mean he is ready to roll with world champions. I would feel so disrespected if I was Cyborg. If I had friends watching Jiu Jitsu for the first time how would I explain that behavior to them? It was embarrassing. He embarrassed himself and he embarrassed the Gracie's. Keep it playful still means you have to grapple asshole!

Dick head said it best "he makes his living fighting in the ufc" he doesn't give a fudge about the money he would get from this nor the glory nor the fame it was very much just a advertisement for the gracie academy i bet it gets mentioned on the next gracie breakdown and ryron and rener will be well thats the grandmasters jiu jitsu and he wanted you to buy this juicer and gracie diet book etc etc

and takers i've got 5 bucks

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

OK so if Cyborg agreed to an mma match then ran for the round and said " he has more experience, I had to play to survive.," would that be acceptable to you? No. BS agreed to a grappling match. If this was just a tourney, fine. But people paid for a super fight. He got paid for a super fight. If I signed up to fight Cyborg and for paid for it, my white belt ass will put up the fight of my life.

There is no excuse for BS. None. If he didn't want to grapple, he shouldn't have signed up.

If i challenged Michael Jordan and just held the ball with no intention to dribble, people wouldn't blame Jordan for not being able to steal the ball.

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Exactly. What the hell did you sign up for if not to GRAPPLE at the GRAPPLING invitational?! He would have the respect of the jiu jitsu world right now if he'd gone in there, attacked with everything he had, and gotten tapped in two minutes. There is no shame in losing a great fight to a great fighter. But you have to put up a fight.

Sidebar: If Cyborg had dropped an anvil on him or painted a tunnel on the wall do think he'd have had a better chance of catching Schaub?

Rener Gracie (who I have immense respect for) after the match (To the crowd) said "What would you do against cyborg?" Personally, I would have probably wound up jogging around the mat as well... not gonna lie.

But if I knew that people were gonna pay money to see it, I wouldn't have taken the fight.

I still have to give respect to Schaub for jumping in there with the best in the world without ANY PREVIOUS grappling tournament experience.

Have to admit i agree, ok you didn't want to play his game, thats fine, but he didn't play any kind of game at all... not engaging and then bailing as soon as there was contact.

The excuses were terrible, tactics, it's cyborgs fault for sitting down... ugh!

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Originally Posted by rickdawson

Rener Gracie (who I have immense respect for) after the match (To the crowd) said "What would you do against cyborg?" Personally, I would have probably wound up jogging around the mat as well... not gonna lie.

But if I knew that people were gonna pay money to see it, I wouldn't have taken the fight.

I still have to give respect to Schaub for jumping in there with the best in the world without ANY PREVIOUS grappling tournament experience.

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It doesn't matter what any of us would do against Cyborg, what mattered was what Schuab was supposed to do against Cyborg: grapple. He said he makes his living in the UFC and isn't about to let Cyborg take a leg home. THEN DON'T SIGN ON TO A 20 MINUTE SUBMISSION ONLY GRAPPLING MATCH WITH CYBORG!

Look, the guy's an elite athlete and a UFC fighter, I'm not trying to sit here and say I'd kick his ass because I'm not delusional. What I am saying is that he ought to have had more respect for Cyborg and the people who paid to see the damn show.

This is reminiscent of what Anderson Silva did against Maia, but reversed in a way. Silva could have easily finished Maia, EASILY, but he chose to clown around and disrespect his opponent, the UFC and the fans. Schuab knew going into this that he was supposed to grapple, and only grapple, and he didn't do that.

If you watched that match you know that Schaub had no intention of grappling with Cyborg at all. He was pushing the head to simulate action (to the point of looking like an absolute clown) then would ask Cyborg to stand up AND THEN NEVER TRY TO TAKE HIM DOWN. So maybe it's like someone was saying and he was waiting for a guillotine.. Christ what a sad excuse for a brown belt, world class athlete. If you can't win, then you try hard and lose, like someone said. You fucking get choked out. It's jiu jitsu and that's what happens when you fight someone better.

On a side-note.. Not only are people paying for the fights but the fighters are being paid. I PERSONALLY would have given my best against Cyborg and got tapped - doesn't make me any less of a grappler. Ego was what that was. That shit isn't about surviving - you're being paid to be put on a stage and showcase jiu jitsu - not look like a typical fucking retarded MMA faggot and then call out Mitrione in the same breath as saying you're doing this to give back to Jiu jitsu.

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Originally Posted by Tom Carbone

Schaub wasted cyborgs time, the crowds, and the people watching at home. Whats worse, is that matches like that drive people away from becoming fans.

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You nailed it.
Schaub should be full of apologies, and it was pathetic the way that Gracie tried to defend his constant running-backwards-tactics to the crowd by saying "Well you may not have liked it, but if you were up here fighting Cyborg, what would you do?"

Well guess what, genius? I'm NOT up there fighting Cyborg. Neither is the crowd. I am not in the league of Jiu Jitsu player that he is and wouldn't last 3 seconds. That's why I'm not up there, and that's why the crowd wasn't up there.
That is also why Schaub should not have been up there.

That was not a Jiu Jitsu match. That was an embarrassment. He should have never accepted the match if he was not going to play Jiu Jitsu.

Schaub lacks warriors spirit.

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Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman

Schaub lacks warriors spirit.

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That's what I am saying. I swear if they let this match allow left hooks for even two minutes and Cyborg landed even close to a strong breeze, he probably would have won instantaneously.

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Originally Posted by Kyle Spalla

That's what I am saying. I swear if they let this match allow left hooks for even two minutes and Cyborg landed even close to a strong breeze, he probably would have won instantaneously.

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Yeah but he knew what he was committing to when he was invited: A Jiu Jitsu match with a professional.

Saw this on Henach's facebook page and had to share:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...39221245_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by J Grooms

We all know Schaub was a sacrificial lamb... no one gave Schaub a chance. Schaub did what he did to survive. Aren't you supposed to just survive vs higher belts? Cyborg is a multiple time gold medalist in BJJ competition. He had 20 minutes to finish schaub in his own world. You cant just lay back and hope someone will agree to play your game. You have to have the ability to enforce your game. I'm not saying that Schaub carried the bushido spirit into battle, but christ that's fucking Cyborg Abreu! Would you willing enter your doom by engaging his guard? Schaub was gonna make him earn it by taking him down, holding him there, and finishing him. Cyborg couldn't do this in 20 minutes. Schaub has 0 submission wins in MMA this was just complete shit matchmaking is what it comes down to. They want to gain fans and put over these BJJ guys by having them beat MMA guys... but christ that match backfired. If they were serious about furthering grappling, then they should be ashamed of that match up. Put Rustam Chsiev in there for the rematch with Cyborg if you want a real exciting no gi match. It's just frustrating that the man that was supposed to be the sacrificial lamb survived the lions den by playing to the rules and everyone blames him for a shit match. There was a lot more wrong with that match than just Schaub. I doubt cyborg would return the favor and step into Schaubs world with him.

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There are some issues with this on a couple levels.
From a strategic standpoint Cyborg took 5-7 shots on Schaub, and Schaub was able to disengage and get away. Schaub shot on Cyborg 1 time and then retreated. So on the feet Schaub refused to engage. Cyborg then sat guard, and Schaub refused to engage there as well. In wrestling Schaub would have been DQ’d, as he would have in BJJ or submission grappling. In boxing or MMA Schaub would also have had points taken away and been heavily penalized.

The bigger issue to me is that Metamoris is supposed to be the marquee promotion that puts on the superfights that us, the fans, want to see. NO ONE wanted to see Schaub in there. He got in there because he’s a Gracie Academy student, and when people complained metamoris issued a press release promising that he wouldn’t do what he did.

Why the fuck would anyone sign up to do a SUBMISSION ONLY event with ZERO intention of submitting your opponent. He had the opportunity to takedown and he didn’t. he had the opportunity to and try and pass, and he didn’t. Sure you have to survive before you can win, but there is no way anyone can say Schaub wanted to do anything but “not lose”. He went out there to disengage for 20 minutes. He wasted everyone’s time. No one wanted to see that fucking match and they fucked us on it. Not only did they not care that he did it but they defended his behavior.

People say Cyborg sitting guard isn’t realistic? As compared to what? In jiu-jitsu it’s very realistic. You might as well say in wrestling you should protect your face so you don’t get punched. We all know how submission grappling matches go, and Schaub had 20 fucking minutes to try anything and he was working his jab the whole time. Embarrassment for himself and Metamoris.

The ironic part of all this is that if he just went in there and got tapped in 3 or 4 minutes people would have given him props for testing himself and trying. Instead he got this garbage.

If you look at a lot of MMA fighters that have good grappling you find that they get ranked quickly because they get good that fast. Schaub for all we know is at the black belt level. His mat time hasn't accumulated yet so he won't get black belt until he puts more time in. He could have beaten cyborg if he did what he should have done and blast through cyborg's guard by posturing and popping his hips foward and keeping pressure. Belt rank has no excuse to run. I faced a 225lb black belt last night and didn't back down. In stead of trying to play deffenseless I played offensive and ended up gettin caught naturally, but I tried I at least made some effort. If schaub got caught and submitted it would have been at least exciting and that's what fighters are there for to entertain us and he failed to do that and above all failed to draw mma fans to pure Jiu jitsu fights.

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

Saw this on Henach's facebook page and had to share:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...39221245_o.jpg

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This is HI-larious.
Also I tried to post the post fight interview between Schaub and Cyborg but it's *ahem* been removed.
Brendan was very rude to Cyborg and Ralek was very one sided in Schaubs favor while conducting the interview in my opinion.
For me it comes down to this, as a booker you need to ask if it's a good match for Metamoris and jiu-jitsu.
From the start the inclusion of Brendan Schaub was not.
Everybody complained the second it was announced, he was put in there to push the Gracie jiu-jitsu cause and nothing else.
I understand the name UFC fighter to draw in the MMA audience but if that we're true they could've gotten a real jiu-jitsu guy like Frank Mir, George Sotiropolous, Damian Maia, etc etc.
The support for Brendans "performance" from his coaches and the promoter of Metamoris after the match is what disturbs me the most.
They're trying to grow the sport and they serve this shit up?

Vinny.

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Originally Posted by Jason 'J-Faz' Farren

This is HI-larious.

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I know man, I still chuckle every time I lay eyes on it.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...99834739_n.jpg

Vinny v Werdum if u want draw a ufc crow ed. Big country v Frank mir works too.

I can understand everyone saying Schaub didn't wanna get caught etc and he was being careful but he signed up to grapple... At least give it a go, he had nothing to lose as he was expected to lose anyway! He just ended up embarrassing himself completely

Also on the other hand Cyborg has won multiple titles for grappling surely he could've done a better job control Schaub on the ground

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

Saw this on Henach's facebook page and had to share:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...39221245_o.jpg

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This is GENIUS!!! (and so much more entertaining than the damn match)

I think the ability to hold somone down, clinching game ect.is essential, as without it bjj becomes again a sport not a martial art.BS has done bjj a favour in showing that there is an aspect that needs to be addressed. Regardless of whether he's a dick or not