I was watching his 50/50 dvds and he seems to be completely against it, anyone know why?
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I was watching his 50/50 dvds and he seems to be completely against it, anyone know why?
Not really sure what his true feelings are about the rg but all people who dislike it havnt taken the time to master it. It's simple, if you don't like wrestling odds are you prolly suck at takedowns :-)
Well, peope tend to have their likes/dislikes regardless of what they are good at. The amount of time that guy spends training, I assure you he has practiced rg, and he is most certainly the body type/flexibility I would expect to be good at it.
Maybe he just feels he has some other things that play much better to his game, and its not so much he doesnt feel rg is any good, but just not the best for him?
I thought that he said that the RG, encourages people to play flat off of their back and that it breeds improper guard work? Or something to that effect. Which is odd, because I can't even work rubber guard until I achieve a broken posture and a proper attack angle... two things which are crucial components to most (if not all?) guard attacks.
^^^ I guess that just underlines what Eddie said. Ryan has not put in the time to understand the RG.
What's the proper attack angle?Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
exactly he's practised rubber guard not mastered it. I carn't really see ryan putting on a mastering the rubber guard dvd and studying it, he might have but i would guess not.
The proper angle is where there centre mass is off at the side compared to your centre mass, aka an angle.
You achieve a proper attacking angle when you can get your hip out to the side of your opponent. I like to think of it as if I were flanking their hips, using all of my tools against one side of their body rather then attacking all of them head on. This also allows my hips to be free so I can pivot for an attack. Squared up, it's too easy for my opponent to keep me centered, nullifying my hips and my guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by lost
IMHO its like anything else... If you own BMW you dont drive a Mercedes. Like Eddie said, who knows what his TRUE feelings are. Fact is he's his own name brand...
Yeah he disses it pretty hard on his triangle set too but I've seen him work it in competition before. Silly Ryan
If anyone including Ryan spent the time to "master" the rg, they definitely wouldn't have anything negative to say about it. Vinny M, George Sots, Aoki, Hazelett are all bjj black belts that have taken the time to master the rg and are you only hear them say positive things about it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by stlnl
^Hit it on the head, plus he has been using alot of of 10thp transitions and positions. So who knows? Maybe? I used to talk and train with him. Then he started acting weird, maybe it was after I asked about him doing any 10th planet. I asked because I saw Einstein leave him a message to walk his ass over. So I figured he was cool with 10th Planet, maybe I was wrong....
It is just easy to diss something instead of praise it because it puts you in the spot light. People like attention...
is there any top MMA guys using the Rubber guard?
Peoples opinions change.
When Ryan was a purple belt he had a DVD out with Lloyd Irvin called "The Grappling Game Plan." In that DVD he actually included RG and some other techniques used widely in the 10th Planet JJ system into his competition game plan. He also mentioned Eddie by name.
Ryan Hall seems like a really open minded guy and he is obviously a super progressive Jiu Jitsu player. I'm a huge Ryan Hall fan and bet he could kill with Rubber Guard. Ryan is good at everything on the mat.
Here is a cool Gogo Plata that Ryan hits in competition...off Flying Kung Fu, from a failed Capoeira Pass. Or maybe he even set that up on purpose. Hmm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-xYMhIom5M
What you need to ask yourself is "are there any top MMA guys that have MASTERED the Rubber Guard." 10th planet is still, in terms of martial arts, a VERY YOUNG system. I imagine that it will be a few more years before people have it mastered enough to employ it in the top level mma matches. I have already seen it a few times by "top level" guys, which I assume refers to the professional level. Nino Schimbre, Jason Day, Shinya Aoki, these are all professional and well known fighters that have used it in mma bouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by sly
I think that the system as a whole is too young to gauge whether or not it will be the standard or not in the cage. 10th planet is just part of a bigger system of jiu jitsu. It is not the end all be all. Everything has a place and figuring out when to use the tools you have is half the battle.
I wanna throw out this idea of a Ryan Hall vs Denny Prokopos superfight?????
what would you all think of that???
that would be cool to watch because usually they both pull guard and i dont know how that fight would go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Stewart
Well, the thing is, I never heard of anyone mastering *anything* and then talking poorly about it. My thoughts were that he trained it, saw some things he did/didnt like, and just thought he didnt think it would complement what he does. As also folks have stated, he has other motives as well (competing dvds) to say things, when folks have seen him use rg at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
So though I dont have any idea what he says what he does, I dont think his level of personal competence was the motivation one way or the other.
That would be amazing! 2 of the most promising young black belts in the game :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Stewart
so master e breeze thinks it would be amazing....
The truly sad part is this superfight nearly was locked in.
Tell the class what happened :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Stewart
So..............
Ryan had a chance to accept a fight with Denny P for a superfight in Denver and ..................
Ryan declined.
what a bitch!!!!!!
wow, well then he has respect for Denny's skillsQuote:
Originally Posted by Derek Stewart
Did he give a reason why he decided not to fight, I'm guessing it wasn't because he thought he'd lose, or was afraid of losing.
very interesting too bad he didnt accept that match it would have been awesome you know I was seriously considering going over to 50/50 jiujitsu to train after I had a falling out with my other Gym but after reading all this Im so happy I didnt!!!! I refuse to continue to throw money at instructors that are close minded its a horrible feeling to attend an academy just to find your an outkast for useing another system and yea I keep hearing others say its just low belts starting shit but honestly Ive experienced being singled out by a big name instructor to remain nameless just for using 10th Planet techniques its not fun and has left a really bad taste in my mouth Im now very cautious about attending BJJ schools to the point were Id rather just drive 3 hrs on the weekends and train at the nearest 10thPlanet academy.
This is a good read. First-let's not speculate too much on the super fight. It could be a decline out of respect, fear, injury, etc. If he (possibly) had an injury and was to compete against a high level/well-know Black Belt and lose, it wouldn't be good. I'm not on his side, just playing Devil's Advocate. It would certainly be an interesting match to see him agains Denny, or Bollinger even. The only issue would be the similar styles and plans of attack. I find it interesting that he seems "against" RG or 10th Planet now, when the 10th Planet system was being predominantly used during his "Ryangle" days while associated with Lloyd Irvin. He has used the RG path extensively, so I would say he has at least a better than fundamental understanding of the path. I would imagine that anything he's doing has more to do with self-promotion and marketing. It's an old sales and marketing ploy when working against good competition: my system/product/service is better than so-and-so's. Their product is inferior and my is superior. He doesn't even have to detail why; if someone buys his Kool-Aid, then he's good to go. Robert Drysdale does similar marketing tactics. Much of his game looks and feels like 10th Planet techniques, but he's the "Nth Dimension Jiu Jitsu". It's all marketing. Drysdale doesn't slam 10th Planet that I've seen.
Look at it this way: if those two well respected and high level BJJ players are copping 10th Planet approach and techniques, it's a compliment. Eddie may be considered like the Eddie Van Halen of no gi: now everyone is starting to sound like him and go out and buy a floyd rose, single humbucker, super strat and tapping with their index finger (guitar reference for those who don't know). It's like the early 80's in rock, only it's jiu jitsu. This kid with the cool name has come up with a new twist on something and everyone wants to be him. :)
It's funny, because Ryan says in his triangle DVD, "don't do this with your knee, please, because his good friend and Kyra Gracie blew their knees out", when he does it quite a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Eisner
However, to be fair, when I got back from Jamaica last summer (I went for a week) I just jumped back into stocks and what not, without stretching first, and heard a 'click'. Was sore for about a few weeks, but I am all good now. :)
Doesn't he specifically say in his DVD that he just wants to avoid weak body movements? My understanding was that flexibility, which he has, shouldn't be a crutch. He wants to focus on the strongest mechanical and structural body movements, which is the whole theory behind his perpendicular triangle finish. It makes sense to me.. you could teach it to anyone (not dependent on flexibility) and not risk injury, which he said he has witnessed before. And like others were saying it's a different brand. He also DID it quite alot.. you probably won't see him doing that anymore. My style has changed dramatically and I'm still a white belt. I imagine your style could change even more going from blue-black. Don't hate, to each their own.
ya i think there should be more people using different guards and series of attacks from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Gammel
My guess would be that someone of Ryan's skill may not see rubber guard as being a necessary addition to his game, which as some of you have already said would probably mean he does not understand it to it's fullest extent.
I never met Ryan, but he is an amazing Jiu Jitsu artist and I would certainly hope that he is not a close minded, arrogant, ass hole. That would be incredibly disappointing.
This is also funny, because RG is not a weak body movement, and, unlike Ryan claims, you are not to be flat on your back. It's also all about angles. So in essence, in my view, he is bashing what he knows not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Gammel
Nonetheless, although I believe strongly in angles, as you can see this intricate body positioning of higher belts, I believe that the 'strong body mechanics' stuff is a little bit of hype.
Don't get me wrong, it's not worthless, but very, very important, yet also important is sensitivity from various positions. If your training partner is good a putting you in positions that negate any possible structural advantage you can muster, then, for example you better be very good a working from flat off your back. More specifically, you should put yourself in bad position often just to work on them.
Or, another example, is sometimes in the triangle, you just can't get the angle to 'stomp and curl'. So, you have to also master varying type of squeezes to finish a fight. 'Stomp and curl' might be the best, but you also have to develop squeezes from even the bad angles.
I might be wrong, but that's what I see for now. :)
Eddie is the Van Halen of no gi. I like that, John. That would make me the Jeff Beck of no gi. :)
I'd be the kerry king of no gi, no skill just brutal nonsense, j/k slayer fans lol
and i am the George Fisher of all grappling.
Yeah, he did say that. I also remember after his ADCC performance him changing his stance on the guard altogether. To the extent of saying that people should avoid things like the rubber guard and even his own upside down guard because it doesn't work at the highest levels of grappling (his notion, not mine). He began extolling the virtues of a strong top game, in the vein of a Roger Gracie style of grappling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Gammel
http://www.lockflow.com/news/ryan-ha...ng-has-changed
“Before, I used to roll around and triangle people a whole bunch of times but if the guy was really good, maybe, maybe not,” Hall said. “But now, it’s get on top, pass, mount, choke. Get on top, pass, mount, choke.”
Hall frequently referenced Rubens “Cobrinha” Charles and Roger Gracie as grapplers that he is now seeking to emulate. Gracie, especially, exemplifies the strategy that Hall now believes is best.
So I do not think that his sentiments are motivated by competing material, since he also criticizes his own material at times. The guy is just on his own journey doing his own thing and his perspective will reflect wherever he is at on that path.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
Not really sure, but I've heard him say it can lead to knee injuries. You would think that someone with as much flexibility as him wouldn't have to worry too much about that though. I've seen him work a rubber guard variation in comps before, but overall it seems like he just prefers other moves. Seems laughable he would tell people that the rubber guard leads to knee injuries when he is known for the 50/50 guard and shredding people's knees with heel hooks. Can't think of anything that leads to more knee injuries than heel hooks.
P.S. Thanks for the link Camacho. Very interesting interview by Ryan.
I met Ryan at one of his seminars. He is far from close minded, and also a very nice guy. I am sure he has his own reasons for not using the rubber guard. Personally I enjoy the rubber guard and have had quite a bit of success with it, but I wouldn't dismiss anything that someone of his skill level says.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi McCreery