Being 'one dimensional' in sparring

Hi everyone,

I've been paying more attention to my training partners recently and particularly to one guy who is something you could probably call a "specialist". He's a 100kg blue belt who always pulls guard and looks for an armbar when rolling gi or straight ankle lock when rolling no gi. There are odd exceptions when he cant get hit these and might sweep but 9 times out of 10 he'll go for them and hit them (when rolling with white/blue/purple belts).
He's crushing in central European tournaments and recently won 4 golds and 2 belts at Grapplers Quest in Amsterdam so it's clearly working. Also, I have to say this guy trains like mad and loves jiu-jitsu. I'm taking nothing away from his work ethic or undermining his game etc.

My question is, what do you guys think about being "one dimensional" (sounds like a negative way of putting it) in sparring? When I roll with him he armbars/ankle locks me ten plus times in 8 minutes and I don't know how much he's getting out of it. I guess it's more reps of the same move, so moving closer to 10k reps and mastery, but would it be better to try out different things when you have the chance?

How do you like to roll? Try out different things or work on your money moves?

Thanks for the input guys.

Oss.

I think it's good to try everything, keep an open mind, but i also think it's good to specialize in something.
That's one difference between white, bleu, purple, brown and black belts.
When you start up, you wanna learn and master everything. In time you will specialize in certain paths and get really good at that.
When people roll with you, they know what you're up to, but aren't able to stop it anyway. David Avellan has the kimura he can hit from any position. Just watch Eddie's twister highlight, those guys knew what was coming.
What's your opinion on this? :
Attachment 2207

I think having a simple, stream lined, go to game creates a very safe basis from which to branch out and experiment. I have my core game, and I encourage the other people in the club to focus heavily on individual game development, rather than introducing too many techniques.
In reference to the belts to Swiss Army Knives photo: in Arnis Kali we have a similar concept, but in reverse. At black belt one should have simplified the skillset down to a single, overwhelming blade that cuts through all the BS. The saying goes like this: the beginner shouts many things hoping to be heard, the apprentice asks questions hoping to be answered, the journeyman debates to show his knowledge, but the master quiets them all with a single word.

Have fun!! I roll to make my jits as pretty as possible. Eventually you and the other training partners should get good at defense for these 2 moves. He will then have to move on to adding something new. By that time he will have soooo many reps it will be so solid in his game, and if anyone tries to do those two moves to you, you will laugh and say I have been here so many times this is easy.

Everyone's journey is different IMO. If he's finding success , then really it's up to his opponents to stop it. Otherwise, he really has no reason to switch his style. I mean, Paul Sass triangled like 10 dudes in a row. It worked for a while. Now he's gotta revise his approach.

I'm not going to say what he should and shouldn't do. We are all different and have different things we want out of BJJ.

Article from Stephan Kesting related to this:

Early in your BJJ development you should be a generalist. This means developing basic skills in ALL areas of BJJ. (Eventually you'll probably specialize a little bit more, but that comes much later, usually around purple belt).

So for now you need to make sure that you're covering all your bases. You really don't want there to be severely underdeveloped areas of your game!

One way to figure out whether there are major holes in your game is to use a checklist like the one below.



Try ranking these positions in order of how much you know about them:

•Closed guard
•Open guard
•Half guard
•Side mount
•Knee mount
•Full mount
•Rear mount

This ordered list then becomes a handy tool to decide which techniques to practice, and what positions you should start your sparring in.



Remember, usually you make your fastest progress by working your weakest area!




Another, somewhat more analytical approach, is to subdivide these positions even further. Lets split each of the above positions into three technical areas:
1.Submissions from that position.
2.Transitions from the position to an even better position.
3.Escapes/guard passes if you're caught in that position.

When we take consider those three types of skills for each of the major positions, we end up with 24 skill sets:
1.Closed guard submissions
2.Closed guard passes
3.Closed guard sweeps
4.Open guard submissions
5.Open guard passes
6.Open guard sweeps
7.Half guard submissions
8.Half guard passes
9.Half guard sweeps
10.Side mount submissions
11.Side mount transitions
12.Side mount escapes
13.Knee mount submissions
14.Knee mount transitions
15.Knee mount escapes
16.Full mount submissions
17.Full mount transitions
18.Full mount escapes
19.Rear mount submissions
20.Rear mount transitions
21.Rear mount escapes
22.Turtle submissions
23.Turtle transitions
24.Turtle escapes

Now I don't normally assign homework, but I want you to try this. Go down that list again and figure out if you know at least two techniques for each area.



To be able to flow and spar and play and feel comfortable on the ground you need to have at least a few good options for each one of the above 24 areas.



This approach also helps you identify areas for improvement.


Hypothetically, let's say that you know 17 different sweeps from the open guard, but you're completely lost when you get stuck in the half guard.



Question for you: if that's the case, should you work on more open guard techniques, or spend some quality time on the half guard?




I bet you just answered the question yourself!
Stephan Kesting
www.beginningBJJ.com
www.grapplearts.com

This guy seems like he is bullying in class and that is what's enjoyable to him...winning. Guys like this usually cap out at blue belt...or change. Class rolls are time to develop, not compete. Is he your friend? If so speak with him about this. He is holding himself back by training like this. What does he do against black belts? What about other 100kg+ guys? If he can only do 2 moves against smaller weaker opponents, he isnt doing jiujitsu.

Thanks for the thoughts, guys.

At my current skill level I'm just having fun and getting better at defending things. I couldn't possibly have the same approach because there's so much to left for me to discover. But I wondered about the same thing ScottRay said,

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He is holding himself back by training like this.

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Is he? Or is he developing a killer competition game? Everyone in class knows what he's going for but he's still killing everyone with it. He plays the same game with all guys, all belts and it's successful because he's drilled it so many times.

It looks a bit boring to me, but his obsession with it makes him very, very effective. I'm gonna continue to be a good white belt and experience everything and see what 'tastes best'.

Anyone else got a specialist in their class?

Marcelo only does no arm chokes. 5 if I'm not mistaken, but he has numerous set ups for those five chokes from every position. Is he holding himself back? Maybe, but everyone goes to sleep so there's a good strategy there. And he is most def a specialist.

Everyone does JJ differently. That's one thing that makes it so interesting. Everyone plays a different game. Usually this really starts to develop as a blue belt. From blue to purple you are developing a solid game. Your partner has two subs that he's killer at. To you...that's all it seems like he's working on, but he probably is constantly working on new set ups and trying to perfect those. Along with new set ups, he also has to develop movement for when he is in a position where he can't get either one of those subs. So maybe he works on a lot of guard recovery and escapes to keep his movement fluid so he can get to the positions where he dominates. I don't necessarily think that is one dimensional or being a bully.

From your viewpoint, I would want to give him a run for his money. You know it's coming every roll so learn some new defenses and you will never get arm barred or ankle locked outside of your gym ever. It's a plus. :) Steel sharpens steel. You get better at defense, his go to stuff has to get better or he has to start developing elsewhere in his game.

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Originally Posted by Pan

Hi everyone,

I've been paying more attention to my training partners recently and particularly to one guy who is something you could probably call a "specialist". He's a 100kg blue belt who always pulls guard and looks for an armbar when rolling gi or straight ankle lock when rolling no gi. There are odd exceptions when he cant get hit these and might sweep but 9 times out of 10 he'll go for them and hit them (when rolling with white/blue/purple belts).
He's crushing in central European tournaments and recently won 4 golds and 2 belts at Grapplers Quest in Amsterdam so it's clearly working. Also, I have to say this guy trains like mad and loves jiu-jitsu. I'm taking nothing away from his work ethic or undermining his game etc.

My question is, what do you guys think about being "one dimensional" (sounds like a negative way of putting it) in sparring? When I roll with him he armbars/ankle locks me ten plus times in 8 minutes and I don't know how much he's getting out of it. I guess it's more reps of the same move, so moving closer to 10k reps and mastery, but would it be better to try out different things when you have the chance?

How do you like to roll? Try out different things or work on your money moves?

Thanks for the input guys.

Oss.

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I think I would get bored with the mindset of only one sub. It seems like I'll only land triangles but I try a list of other subs before I lock that triangle in. Constantly hunting for that Anaconda but I haven't got enough reps to land it at the consistency I'd like to.
Anyways, I don't think it's bad to be "one dimensional" but I wouldn't be able to do it personally.

I wanna roll this guy.

He's found a way to impose his will on his opponents. Generalists in jiu jitsu will throw moves at you. Specialists generate a sequence of moves to get you to their familiar zone, and they go to work.

Why are you letting this guy keep hitting the same moves on you? Is he that good? Cant you learn some defenses and counters. Maybe dont let him pull guard?

My coach will hit moves on me repeatedly to try to get me to figure how avoiding/escaping them. This is a challenge you can learn from, wish i could come try to figure him out. Guy sounds good, you might be able to become immune to these specific attacks by talking advantage of his limited repertoire.

We've drilled ankle lock defense but he's drilled the attack more than most similar belts have drilled the defense so he still finds success. I've tried pulling guard on him but his go-to-move in lesbian scissoring (it's a gi class) and ankle lock so it doesn't really solve the problem. I'm not bothered about getting tapped by him - he's better than me- but I thought the same as Brent Smith. It must be boring. It gets you to 10k reps faster though and it's working for him in class and in comps. And we all get to practise ankle lock and armbar defense all the time so we're benefiting in some way. It's not the route for me though. Not yet anyway.

not saying you be bothered getting tapped by him (i would be:)) but just as he is getting his reps in you can be getting your reps in on defence of the tactics he uses. Unless hes very strong you should be able to develop the ability to shut down his go to moves. Standing passes?

so hes doing the straight ankle lock? like this,
http://victorhuberbjj.com/wordpress/...6-14.27.25.jpg

In Ryan Halls choke dvd he talks about how he sucked at position bjj in general and was a low belt in many things but when he would attack 50-50 guard there isnt anyone that would know more than him because no matter how you turned he was able to transition to something. You couldnt present him with a situation where he didnt have an answer. This allowed him to defeat people who could be considered better than him.

I think if this guy is only hitting the exact same set up everytime and going for the finish right away he is hurting his overall game in the long run by not expanding or atleast leaning the options that can come off his subs

For me its like i cant afford to train like that, because then my students would only get good at my 2 subs. I wouldnt know anything else well enough to teach and produce someone who is good at it.

sorry for the giant pic. How's your leg lock defense in general? I would honestly try asking him "how do i stop that" and see if he'll just tell you what gives him trouble, if hes going for them all the time then he knows the roadblocks along the way. Or maybe you can have both your feet amputated? Whatever it takes.

type "straight ankle lock counter" into youtube.

Thanks again for all the input. this is a fairly typical example of him rolling in class or competition. There are lots more videos of him on the same youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc-dW45ZY8U

I'm not asking for ways to beat him or anything and I do ask him how he got me, but with me it's usually dumb stuff I'm doing i.e. letting him control my ankle or arm for too long. My leg lock defense is poor and he exploits it, as he should (assuming he just wants to win and get another rep of the setup and finish - or maybe he wants to show me how vulnerable I am.) I'll keep drilling it and be glad I get tested on it so often.

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I think if this guy is only hitting the exact same set up everytime and going for the finish right away he is hurting his overall game in the long run by not expanding or atleast leaning the options that can come off his subs

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I agree with this and it's what made me ask you guys about it. I'm sure it's awesome for his development of those two finishes and the paths there, but the rest of his progression must be suffering. Do you try to avoid doing the things you're already good at to work on new stuff? Do you polish the killer weapons? Bits of both?

Personally, I think what he's doing is pretty smart. Not only should you have a core game of tried and true moves to rely on, but focusing on particular techniques allows you to progress with them more quickly in my opinion. Marcelo even said that when he started out, he did nothing but the triangle in rolling (to the point where some of his training partners thought that the triangle was all he knew). Then he moved on to other things. He took that same focus and applied it to the RNC, the guillotine, the barat choke, etc. You can actually look at some of his rolls, and he'll usually be using one sub depending on when the roll took place. For example, there's videos of him tapping Damien Maia and Ben Askren with just the guillotine.

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Originally Posted by Ringo Lagrange

I think it's good to try everything, keep an open mind, but i also think it's good to specialize in something.
That's one difference between white, bleu, purple, brown and black belts.
When you start up, you wanna learn and master everything. In time you will specialize in certain paths and get really good at that.
When people roll with you, they know what you're up to, but aren't able to stop it anyway. David Avellan has the kimura he can hit from any position. Just watch Eddie's twister highlight, those guys knew what was coming.
What's your opinion on this? :
Attachment 2207

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I dont like your revised version of that picture, I think you did it because you wanted to be a knife not a spoon ;)

If he is doing it to master this move and every set-up and escape counter and then move on to master other stuff thats one thing.

If he is doing it because he likes winning easy thats another.

Training like this can be double edged

Absolutely nothing wrong with what he is doing.

He's doing just fine. You guys need to step it up. He needs you guys to step it up. Idk what you guys think about after you leave class....but for me, it would eat me up that there is such a hole in my game that this guy could just run through me with the same thing over and over. You guys need to shut him down. It will help your game as well as his. Arm bars are defendable. Ankle locks are defendable. Does he smash your instructor with these techs?

He's good.

i personally think that theres nothing wrong with it so far. by the look of things he is trying to get to the same place everyone else is. ie being a perfect jiu jitsu fighter, but he is going down a slightly different path. you wont get to black belt by only knowing two subs nor will you get there knowing a hundred subs that never work. im definitly a ver general fighter when i roll, but im trying really hard to become specific and only focus on a couple of subs. if you can sub anyone with a move then imo you can roll a lot more relaxed because you know that you always have a hidden weapon ready to use. its like in mma when a guy is so good on the ground, he can let his hands go and do things others might not because he doesnt mind going to the ground.

aside from that, if he is killing in comps then good on him.

the problem will be if thats all he is does. if he never looks to learn any other move and get it up to that level or even if he only ever learns one or two ways into the sub then he will reach point where people will defend better than he attacks. hopefully when he gets there he will move on to something else.

bruce lee said (atleast something like) "I do not fear the man who has practised 1000 kicks once, i fear the man who has practised one kick 1000 times"

i just hope he doesnt get bored and quit. if a guy is doing well enough to beat all these people then he might make something out of himself with it.

and my last worry is that he is using a bit of technique but does he use a lot of strength as well, cos that could point to him that he doesnt have as much technique there as you might think. when he gets iit on a brown or black belt his size, then u know its definitly legit :D

People who complain about ankle locks tend to limp a lot.

Counters aren't nearly as efficient as avoiding getting caught in the first place. You can say that about every submission but this is especially true of an ankle lock. If I can wrap my arm about your ankle, you are likely in some serious trouble. Change your game so that you are not leaving your feet out there like an early Christmas present. I started doing ankle locks when everyone at our school started playing open guard and leaving their feet near my hip. A lot of the early Z guard players made similar mistakes. If you insist on giving them the foot, well of course he will take it.

I remember one training partner asked me not to do ankle locks because he ankles were sore. No biggie but then every time we rolled he had a reason for me not to do ankle locks, which really pissed me off when he then proceeded to take advantage of the armistice by playing an open guard that repeatedly left his feet on my hips. If you don't want to get ankle locked, don't play a guard that leaves you feet open.

You must change your game when you realize that the person you are rolling with wants to attack your feet. That's also why every gym needs at least one person like your friend to keep everyone honest. When you learn how to cock block his ankle locks, he will be forced to learn how to pass. That will make him truly dangerous because most people bring their feet back out to prevent the pass - and that lets him hit those ankles again. I almost never hit ankle locks the way I did when I was a blue belt because no one leaves them out there for me anymore. I have had to develop new approaches.

Eventually your friend will start mixing it up himself. I realized that ankles get sore pretty fast and after the first two on each foot (per partner), people are tapping very quickly because their ankles are already very sore. So I try to cap it at two per foot per partner. Then I work other aspects of the game.

Ankle locks are an expansive area of study so focusing on those will not be a waste of time. There's so many directions you can take that aspect of your game. In my case, I started mixing it up by changing angles and playing with my hand positions. All most all of my current ankle locks are finished one-handed. Then there's correcting a bad ankle lock and learning how to ratchet up the pressure so that your opponent is convinced you can actually break his ankle. Stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by scottross

People who complain about ankle locks tend to limp a lot.

Counters aren't nearly as efficient as avoiding getting caught in the first place. You can say that about every submission but this is especially true of an ankle lock. If I can wrap my arm about your ankle, you are likely in some serious trouble. Change your game so that you are not leaving your feet out there like an early Christmas present. I started doing ankle locks when everyone at our school started playing open guard and leaving their feet near my hip. A lot of the early Z guard players made similar mistakes. If you insist on giving them the foot, well of course he will take it.

I remember one training partner asked me not to do ankle locks because he ankles were sore. No biggie but then every time we rolled he had a reason for me not to do ankle locks, which really pissed me off when he then proceeded to take advantage of the armistice by playing an open guard that repeatedly left his feet on my hips. If you don't want to get ankle locked, don't play a guard that leaves you feet open.

You must change your game when you realize that the person you are rolling with wants to attack your feet. That's also why every gym needs at least one person like your friend to keep everyone honest. When you learn how to cock block his ankle locks, he will be forced to learn how to pass. That will make him truly dangerous because most people bring their feet back out to prevent the pass - and that lets him hit those ankles again. I almost never hit ankle locks the way I did when I was a blue belt because no one leaves them out there for me anymore. I have had to develop new approaches.

Eventually your friend will start mixing it up himself. I realized that ankles get sore pretty fast and after the first two on each foot (per partner), people are tapping very quickly because their ankles are already very sore. So I try to cap it at two per foot per partner. Then I work other aspects of the game.

Ankle locks are an expansive area of study so focusing on those will not be a waste of time. There's so many directions you can take that aspect of your game. In my case, I started mixing it up by changing angles and playing with my hand positions. All most all of my current ankle locks are finished one-handed. Then there's correcting a bad ankle lock and learning how to ratchet up the pressure so that your opponent is convinced you can actually break his ankle. Stuff like that.

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I became very conscious about my long distance half guard because of the fact I kept getting ankle locked. Now I pay special attention if they start to search around for my ankles. I've been tapped from much lower belt levels because I was being lazy with my feet. Lesson learned pretty quickly. I hate the idea of saying, "hey dont attack my <insert injured limb>". I'm just quicker to tap if it ends up being attacked and do a better job of avoiding that limb being attacked. Its just training and I'm just there to learn.

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Originally Posted by sean applegate

He's doing just fine. You guys need to step it up. He needs you guys to step it up. Idk what you guys think about after you leave class....but for me, it would eat me up that there is such a hole in my game that this guy could just run through me with the same thing over and over. You guys need to shut him down. It will help your game as well as his. Arm bars are defendable. Ankle locks are defendable. Does he smash your instructor with these techs?

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+1

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He's doing just fine. You guys need to step it up.

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You're right. We all need to realise specialist like this are in comps and we've gotta figure out ways to shut them down. If I can defend myself against a purple belt specialist, I should be fine against people in my white belt division. It's good for me.

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He's good.

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Yeah, he is. Grappler's Quest Europe blue belt absolute champion.

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Does he smash your instructor with these techs?

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Good question. Answer: no. Our instructor never lets him control his sleeves or ankles and passes to a more dominant position without exposing himself (from what I've seen). I understand this is the thing to do, but I'm not skilled enough to do it yet.

Oss.

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Originally Posted by Pan

Thanks again for all the input. this is a fairly typical example of him rolling in class or competition. There are lots more videos of him on the same youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc-dW45ZY8U

I'm not asking for ways to beat him or anything and I do ask him how he got me, but with me it's usually dumb stuff I'm doing i.e. letting him control my ankle or arm for too long. My leg lock defense is poor and he exploits it, as he should (assuming he just wants to win and get another rep of the setup and finish - or maybe he wants to show me how vulnerable I am.) I'll keep drilling it and be glad I get tested on it so often.




I agree with this and it's what made me ask you guys about it. I'm sure it's awesome for his development of those two finishes and the paths there, but the rest of his progression must be suffering. Do you try to avoid doing the things you're already good at to work on new stuff? Do you polish the killer weapons? Bits of both?

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Is this him? From the looks of it, he WAS trying something different, but the other guy just gift wrapped his ankle with a nice little bow and handed it to him.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

Is this him? From the looks of it, he WAS trying something different, but the other guy just gift wrapped his ankle with a nice little bow and handed it to him.

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I agree that the other guy gave him that ankle lock. That happens frequently and it always makes my day. Keeping your feet away from his hands is a good starting point.

Now for something a little more constructive.

Step 1: As soon as he grabs your foot, kick forward, then kick back. Get your foot back. If that doesn't work, step two.

Step 2: In the video, the opponent tries to prevent the guy from falling back to finish the ankle lock. Not a bad idea but that's often a battle you will lose if the specialist has been doing this a while. You know exactly what is going to happen as soon as he touches your foot. So don't wait for the ankle lock to be on, start executing the escape immediately.

Grab his right knee and prevent him from using it to put pressure on your knee, which increases the pressure on your ankle.

Boot. If he is already on his side, then once you have booted turn your foot in towards his back(this is the opposite of conventional wisdom - but if he is on his side, he can't pull off the heel hook without making a major movement to reposition his arm). This buys you one or two seconds. Spend these seconds wisely.

With your left hand, push his left foot the floor. Pin that foot to the floor and push your butt over the foot. Once you clear his knee you are safe. Until you clear the knee, he can still replace his foot.

As soon as I clear the foot, I like to roll forward onto my right shoulder, then push backwards into a mount. Then I grin.

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

I hate the idea of saying, "hey dont attack my <insert injured limb>". I'm just quicker to tap if it ends up being attacked and do a better job of avoiding that limb being attacked. Its just training and I'm just there to learn.

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It is a good idea to let your training partner know about the injury so they can try to be careful not to make it worse, although I tell people that if I give them the submission, they should take it - I'll tap swiftly.

What killed me about the guy I was talking about was that he had a great open guard game that I nullified because of the danger of the ankle locks and he was weaseling out what I still consider my best defense against that game. I have other options nowadays but at the time it was really my only option.

If he can tap people out all the time with those two techniques then more power to him. However if I start Doing the same move over and over and over I feel like I become predictable and I like to switch it up a bit. I'm pretty good with triangles and I guess that's my number one move I'm always looking for from any where but I like to work on alot of other stuff to broaden my game as well. IMO specializing in one or two key submissions is fine but if those fail u should have back ups.

The one good thing about the specialist is they are predictable. I have two training partners who are all about the guillotine. So I stick my neck out while controlling their legs and smile. They lock up on my neck and I pass to side with little effort. But I had to learn the hard way to not play Z guard with them on top or I end up in neck Crank city!

Its all about what you are trying to achieve from your rolls. I have a small group of guys that are determined to shut down by deep halfguard. This is exactly why I continue to attack them with it. What they haven't figured out yet is as they get better at trying smash it, I get better at excuting it, keeping the margine the same. It pays of for all of us, they are developing sound defense to it, I'm getting better at shutting down their defense and working around new ones.

Thanks for the reps fellas ;)

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Its all about what you are trying to achieve from your rolls. I have a small group of guys that are determined to shut down by deep halfguard. This is exactly why I continue to attack them with it. What they haven't figured out yet is as they get better at trying smash it, I get better at excuting it, keeping the margine the same. It pays of for all of us, they are developing sound defense to it, I'm getting better at shutting down their defense and working around new ones.

Thanks for the reps fellas ;)

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Thats exactly my mind set when someone tells me they're going to figure out a way to stop my game. Please do!