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After watching the Henderson Vs Pettis fight...It provoked some thoughts regarding BJJ/Submission Wrestling...Pettis (a purple belt) submits Henderson (a black belt) with an armbar from guard a pretty straight forward and almost basic armbar....Does this prompt that in your JJ game you should always focus on the basics and the fundamentals?
Pettis may be a purple belt but he isn't really a purple belt IMO. He has been training jiu jitsu/no gi for 8 years or so, and at a pro athlete level (not just your average joe that trains 2 maybe 3 times per week). That mofo is a black belt or at least very close to it. :)
This happens all the time. Black gets tapped by purple in the cage. I could write a novel on this but I'm keeping it semi-short.
First: BJJ black belt = ????? Nogi. Bjj purple = ???? Nogi. It depends on how their game translates. If your a black belt specializing in collar chokes and spider guard, probably doesn't translate to nogi too well. If your a purple belt specializing in arm drags and the rnc/armbar combo from the back, you might have a great nogi game.
Second: There is a thing that happens when a color belt wins a UFC title belt. Even if his whole careers success comes from striking, the jjiujitsu coach feels the need to put a black belt on them.. I don't understand this.. It kinda makes me sick. Now, I'm a fan of Ben Henderson. But does he have black belt nogi skills? No. Is he a legit top 5 fighter at 155 ? yes. But what about that gets him a black belt? I would demote him... Sorry. But nobody above blue lets that happen. He made like 30 mistakes before and during that armbar. Looked like his first time being in one.
He isn't actually a purple. He said in the post fight pressed he isn't ranked. Even if he was, 8 years, of probably one on one, puts him pretty high up. Belts don't really mean as much as the majority think they do. That's for sure.
Also, he got his black belt after winning the Ibjjf worlds at brown :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
yeah im not a fan of henderson by any means, but his jits is legit. i think it was after the frankie edgar fight 2 the the next monday he was in a jits competition, something reasonably high up and he got second place. he competes quite a bit in jiu jitsu and places often in his rankings. he may not be frank mir level jiu jitsu but without knowing him id say he is worthy of a black belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by sean applegate
isnt there the saying, the journey is just beginning when you get your bb. ? he got caught, in an mma fight. it happens. i think no matter what happned though, pettis wouldve gotten him somehow.
Jesus Dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
You kinda make me sick.
We all make mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
The gloves can make it very hard to get out of an armbar sometimes. Too bad. I remember the first time Henderson fought Cowboy Cerrone, Cowboy could not submit him. No matter how slick the transition or how tight the submission. Pettis just has his number.
I agree with this Pettis has his number. Pettits lost to Clay G. In the UFC,Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Patten
some match up better against certain types and style for sure.
Eh, everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes you do something wrong and someone does the right perfect thing. Could be he didn't Hespect Pettis' guard and forgot the belt only covers 2 inches. Could be Pettis regardless of rank/no rank has a real sick arm bar.
Who knows, but I'm sure you don't get all the way to a title match without some tricks and quicks in the pocket.
Guida kept Pettis off balance so he couldn't load up those really devestating kicks. Guida when in rampage mode is a hard guy to stop and he just blasted him over and over again. Pettis really grew from that loss as he demonstrated really improved wrestling in his fight with Jeremy Stephens and I don't think the same outcome would happen again if they fought. Guida looks really good at Featherweight but needs to keep his full throttle style and he will climb fast, Chad Mendes is well...well he is fucking Chad Mendes and powerful as hell and has confidence in the power thanks to Duane Ludwig, so I expect a very different approach if he rematches Aldo, he has the power to finish anymore in the division, but Aldo has the ability to out technique and Aldo knows how to use his length and keep Chad away. Interesting rematch if it were to happen. Pettis stylistically possess a problem for Aldo, I think Aldo has better hands and Pettis better kicks. Then of course you got Ricardo Lamas, Cub Swanson and Nik Lentz still surging. My eyes are on the featherweights, that's where all the blood is going to be spilled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockanrollin
I don't think he won worlds at any belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by sean applegate
Pettis has a really sick guard and if you watch hendersons bjj matches, he gets submitted in closed guard otherwise henderson is a really tough bjj competitor. everyone has weaknesses and everyone, even the best of the best make a ton of mistakes when competing. just because pettis has a really good guard/armbar, doesn't mean henderson doesn't deserve a black belt. he is absolutely deserving of a black belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
BJJ is not anyone's game. But yes we should always focus on basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Steggles
I agree in part to your point about how those gi skills translate to no gi with strikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
But Bendo is a legit black belt. He does compete. Unless you've accomplished what he's accomplished (outside of the ring), you can't really say much about whether or not he's a legit black belt or not. Pettis caught him sleeping. He defended, but Pettis' attack was better than his defense.
That's what I'm saying, give Pettis some credit here. It's not so much that Bendo made a mistake. I'm sure Bendo's escaped 1000's of armbars. Pettis is just that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Patten
I agree that Pettis has his number. But bringing up the Clay loss is a moot point. The Pettis camp made a strategic error. Pettis wasn't beaten because he couldn't stop the takedown or get back to his feet. He lost because he thought he could win off his back. Once he dropped two rounds, he realized that's a bad move and decisively won the 3rd, but it was too little too late. Bendo is a MUCH stronger and better wrestler than Guida, and Bendo has never been able to bully Pettis. Styles make fights and strategies break fights. But yeah, Pettis just has Ben's number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockanrollin
http://youtu.be/DbeBVJOj5UwQuote:
Originally Posted by Justin W.
Henderson is a legit black belt in BJJ. Hes competed in elite level BJJ and done okay. MMA is dynamic and not BJJ its that simple. Other facets of the sport can dictate the ground fighting too by the time it reaches there.
this is Pans, not Worlds and though he won this match, I'm positive he didn't win his division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tori Applegate
Awesome match. There is no doubt Benson is high level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin W.
Absolutely. Bendo is elite. Just shows how ridiculously high level the people who beat guys like Benson and win at these major tournaments. There is no ceiling on skill in BJJ. I love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Rick
Ahhh most definitely Justin. Jeez, and to have to think about punches while doing the jits. It's tough being really good at any two aspects of MMA: wrestling, dirty boxing, Jj, boxing, kickboxing, strategy, cardio, flexibility, defense... It's never ending.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin W.
I'll say it again. Let Anthony tee off on anybodies spleen like that. To the point where you desperately dive into his guard just to stop the small end of a baseball bat from whipping into your organs again and maybe catch a breathe. You might fuck up. That being said, Its pretty universal that you don't grab the head while in guard. Some use it as bait. But its a race. If you win, you get side. If you lose, well, someone else gets to wear your belt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
That is a damn good point.
I totally agree it looked really really sloppy in terms of his defence.
This is very true, but like another post on this thread suggests, Hendersons defence against the armbar as shocking lol