My Guillotine Woes from Half Guard

Half guard has been my go to game for some time now. My lockdown is tight as shit (it really aggravates most guys I roll with), my whip ups are nice and strong, and I can pull off Old Schools and Electric Chairs pretty well (even Apollo Arm Triangles). But the problem is that I can only do well from half when my opponents posture is broken. When it is broken I can use the lockdown to stretch and the whip up to off-base them and keep my neck out of choking range. My training partners have figured this out though and immediately posture up once I pull half guard, basically daring me to come up and meet them. On inexperienced guys that's no problem; I'll still sweep 'em all day. But against the more savvy, I literally get guillotined about 90% of the time, and overall, this is where I get submitted about 60% of the time. I really need suggestions about how to either avoid the guillotine or how to break their posture while maintaining the lockdown because I'm currently training for a NAGA tourny and am desperately counting on my half guard game.

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Originally Posted by Ross Davidson

Half guard has been my go to game for some time now. My lockdown is tight as shit (it really aggravates most guys I roll with), my whip ups are nice and strong, and I can pull off Old Schools and Electric Chairs pretty well (even Apollo Arm Triangles). But the problem is that I can only do well from half when my opponents posture is broken. When it is broken I can use the lockdown to stretch and the whip up to off-base them and keep my neck out of choking range. My training partners have figured this out though and immediately posture up once I pull half guard, basically daring me to come up and meet them. On inexperienced guys that's no problem; I'll still sweep 'em all day. But against the more savvy, I literally get guillotined about 90% of the time, and overall, this is where I get submitted about 60% of the time. I really need suggestions about how to either avoid the guillotine or how to break their posture while maintaining the lockdown because I'm currently training for a NAGA tourny and am desperately counting on my half guard game.

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Big neck, big posture. If they are attacking your neck there is a strong possibility that they are compromising their base to do so. Threaten his base, get your hand in to defend the choke and reset the position.

Do you use the dog fight?

Also, if they're posturing and pulling away from you they should be leaving a pretty big space for you to swing under to the deep half.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

Big neck, big posture. If they are attacking your neck there is a strong possibility that they are compromising their base to do so. Threaten his base, get your hand in to defend the choke and reset the position.

Do you use the dog fight?

Also, if they're posturing and pulling away from you they should be leaving a pretty big space for you to swing under to the deep half.

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When I was at the Melbourne seminar Eddie showed us a defence for a guillotine from half. Defend the choke first and.tuck tour chin down and then with yoit right aemail grab their elbow and with tour left arm grab under their shoulder and control the shouorder or head then whip up and twist while pushing you legs away and it taps them. Sorry its a terrible explanation. Maybe someone else.can explain it better. I'm on my phone atm and can't even.see what I'm wwriting herel

Eddie.did Warn dint do it against anyone wwith 20 pounds or mor. On you they can power out which is dangerou for.you but it's a legit moves

I recommend watching MTS 55 & 56. Eddie goes over a lot of technique from the lockdown and 1/4 guard a lot of which will prevent guillotines. definately worth watching!!

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

Big neck, big posture. If they are attacking your neck there is a strong possibility that they are compromising their base to do so. Threaten his base, get your hand in to defend the choke and reset the position.

Do you use the dog fight?

Also, if they're posturing and pulling away from you they should be leaving a pretty big space for you to swing under to the deep half.

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As I'm thinking about your comment about deep half, and my current patterns when in half guard, I'm thinking that is most likely better to get under the opponent. Now that I think about it, I believe I have been wrapping up around the torso.

I would really like to know more about the seminar stuff too if you get a chance to real me.

I'm definitely going to be studying up on this. Need my A game ready!

I bait them to guillotine me and hit the mechanic. Works great unless they are really huge!

To defend the guillotine or darce, shake hands.

lol Issac, that was difficult to read. But I got through it.

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Originally Posted by Slick Rick

To defend the guillotine or darce, shake hands.

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This is solid. If they grab my neck from here, I will usually just grab the old school, sweep em, pass em, and shut the guillotine down from top side or Von flu. It's super high percentage for me. Brandon's point about their base is big.

Shoulder shrug and dig your chin in to defend the guillotine in half-guard while your hands are busy setting up a sweep or submission . It takes a while to get used to but if you can get perfect double unders, your head is safe.

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

lol Isaac, that was difficult to read. But I got through it.

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heh yeah really sorry about that. to go into more detail now i have a computer. once you dig your chin in, reach up and grab their elbow on the side that your head is on, and hold on tight. im 99% sure that this is for a normal guilotine and not an arm in guilotine so swing your other arm arm passed their armpit to keep their upper body in placeand then make sure you whip up to try and get your body almost perpendicular to theirs and twist them. if you dont feel them tap move your legs around a bit as well and make sure you have everything tight.

as i said before, eddie told us to only do it on guys that are at most 20 pounds bigger than you. cant remember the name of the move but it is definitly worth while learning.

anyone else at the melbourne seminar remember more details about it?

inverted von flu from joe camacho,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1il2-OGKG8

Have you tried the Electric Clinch? It gets you deep so you don't get guillotined. Watch MTS 56 @ 11:14 titled "The New Electric Chair". It's a great episode. :cool:

TONS of great suggestions in here! Maybe I'm just the boring guy but what about pulling full guard or better yet butterfly guard? If they're backing up and posturing that raises their thighs and should allow you, in worst case scenario, to stick one butterfly hook in. Most of the time when you release the Lockdown when they do that they charge back in to pass and when they do that farside hook is great to flip them over or work into DHG, Full Guard,etc. You should, with proper timing, be able to pull both legs out and put them in guard then use that to work towards RG,etc.

I'm sure with all the replies posted you're gonna find one that works for you :)

I was having the same problem with a strong blue belt who is all up in the guillotine. I like to play z guard and attack kimmeys but if I loose arm control my head is out there in the danger zone. I'm with the others get your under hooks first then get your lockdown. Biggest danger is hanging out in the middle. Either dive in deep or knee shield and keep head as far always as possible. If they dive in for the sub you got to get two on one wrist control asap ...you can tuck out of the sub but maybe not the neck crank so get a wrist fast!

You all have helped me a ton. There's only a couple of things I've consciously tried while rolling (shake hands; Macho-Man Choke [didn't choke him out, but made him release his grip and go back to head and arm, setting me up for a whip up]). Both have worked. I'm going to try and use as many of the remaining suggestions as possible............... Maybe this should be a new post, but I've been having problems with big dudes (like 2+ weight classes bigger). The issue is that they are so big, lanky, and strong that they are able to kimora and americana me with ease. Even if I'm defending very well, they are able to straight up muscle my arm into the lock. Thoughts? Maybe I'll start a new thread for this....

Yeah you gotta be a beast to pull off the macho man. Wouldn't suggest it with a weight disadvantage.

Ross my first thoughts are that if you are getting Kimura'd and Americana's you are probably flat on your back. That lets the big beasts use their double advantage of strength AND the floor against you and after that it's only a matter of time. If you are on the bottom and not in open or closed guard then you need to be on a hip and fighting for that topside underhook, especially from half guard. It keeps that arm active and not easily captured, can help deflect pressure and will set up sweeps and possibly pathways to the back. If you are pinned under sidecontrol then the same thing; if those arms aren't working to create space and up under one of those monsters then they're going to use strength to rip it away from your trex or body pin position and secure an armlock. In a nutshell, it's harder for them to snatch an arm if they have to defend against it doing work first vs just smudging it off of your body with brute strength.

If you're getting caught on the topside there's several variables there, too, but I'd say if you get in the habit of protecting your neck while attacking up there while passing,etc that shuts them down from attacking it to set up a counter attack to your arm or be aware of flared elbows while working to pass guard and be sure there's no handles for them to secure. There's more but play with those and see what you can come up with ? ;-)

Thanks man. You're right that I've been too flat. My coach told me the same thing. Gonna work on that. Thanks again everyone.