http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/9/16...-of-the-family
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I think he is naive about the evolution of the game.
He's got a point I mean how many guys are going out imposing their jj when dudes believe in their shit it seems to work
Royce, in his prime, wouldn't even make it into the UFC today
He does have a point about guys not relying on their "A" game though. Nothing worse than watching two high caliber grapplers try to out strike one another.
Ya but its like Eddie always says everybody at the highest level is hard to take down and if they are not working on there wrestling or becoming a serious threat with there hands to force a take down... And the kind of "gracie jiu jitsu" Royce is talking about is the kind that gets a stand up. Royce played a kind of wait and bait game. Every body in the ufc regardless of there jiu jitsu has pretty high level defense and they can't wait ware them down frustrate them and force a mistake because it will get a stand up. I don't think Royce could put away anybody in the ufc off his back even a blue belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon-Michael Holland
Big Cat stole my words, my involvement in this thread is no longer necessary...oh and +1Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Carbone
Yup. In competition I believe you should stick to what you know, but yes, you need some paths/options to get your opponent to the ground. There has to be a balance or you will just lose fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Carbone
Royce is the Dan Severn of Jiu Jitsu
I agree, stick to your A-game. A Gracie trying to strike is like a fish trying to climb a tree. Roger gracie also tried to make 185? At like 7 feet tall? Wtf? Fights in jits tournaments his whole life at over 200, then decides to change his body to try to make 185.
Any video clips of the Dan Severn vs Royce Gracie fight?
What I don't agree with. Jiu jitsu alone is enough. Maybe against an untrained assailant/opponent. Maybe in low tier ammy MMA. Not for professional MMA. In fact, he kind of contradicts himself when he states that he learned boxing and wrestling. If jiu jitsu was enough, you wouldn't need to know any of that.
What I do agree with: You shouldn't learn boxing to try and box with someone who's a better boxer. You learn boxing to figure out THEIR game so you can avoid it. IMO, that's what Randy Couture excelled at. He understood boxing well enough to avoid his opponent's game so he could employ his own game. I do agree that guys should focus on their A game. Demian Maia 1.0 was finishing mf'ers left and right with like 4 sub of the night bonuses...then he goes to face Marquardt, decides, to become k-1 Maia, gets KO'd, and goes on to lose like 3 straight. Now, Maia 2.0 goes back to his BJJ self and dominates guys that are usually the dominators. Go figure.
Eat the meat spit out the bones. I think BJJ based fighters should take heed to the relevant parts of his opinion.
Word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Carbone
Not necessarily. I think he's just talking about BJJ in general. BJJ can adapt to the rules and be effective. Like I've mentioned too many times already (Bit of a Maia Fanboy), I really feel like Maia has shown a great game plan for how to adapt BJJ to MMA. Just because guys are getting harder to take down doesn't mean you can't grapple. Grappling doesn't just occur when you're on the mat. What needs to be done is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Wylie
a. Learn how to safely close the distance
b. Develop a strong cage clinch game
c. Wear them down with strong clinch/ground strikes
Once you engage in the clinch, it's grapple time. Right there you're scoring points in the judges eyes. Plus, if you score the TD from there, you're in your world.....if they take YOU down....you're still in your world. That's why that cage clinch should be part of the BJJ evolution for MMA. What Maia's been doing that's genius to me is faking for the takedown and going to the back. It's a thing of beauty. And he has a killer back control.
Also, my opinion of the guard game in MMA: don't play it for longer than 2 minutes. If you're not subbing them in that time frame, you're losing points. Fight back to your feet or sweep.
A BJJ oriented fighter CAN use BJJ to win fights. They just need to know how to use it in the context of MMA rules.
/rant
Ok fine ... but do you truly believe Damien doesnt work his wrestling and boxing etc ... he does do what hes meant to do and push his beautiful Jits style ... but at the end of the day he doesn focus on just jits in his training ... Its a presumption but ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Royce is delusional
Stewart, no way do I think Maia isn't crosstraining. I know Demian works all of it. But he's doing what Royce describes. He's not training boxing to go out there and box. He's not training wrestling to go out there and hit double legs. He's training it to know how to deal with it. And if you watch his recent game, it's like 90% straight up no gi BJJ.
except for that one year straight where Damien thought he was fucking Muhammad Ali. Royce is old, and his family's legendary name is fading, he's retarded if he thinks someone can be a pure Jiu-Jitsu fighter and win in the UFC at that level. Vinny Mag is probably the best jiujitsu fighter to be in the UFC, if he could've gotten phil davis down, i believe he woulda tapped him in under a minute, but he couldn't. you gotta be good at everything, and spectacular at one thing in particular. at least that's what i think.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
Maia out wrestled Fitch
face up back control isn't exactly wrestling...he'd be pinning himself. Maia out jiu jitsu'd Fitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Briggs
Using Royce's logic; if you are in the UFC and matched up against a far superior Jiu Jitsu fighter you should only use Jiu jitsu against them thus guaranteeing your loss. Whatever you do don't try to win using another art or strategy as they are not needed.
lmao. That's a good counterpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin.Harris