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It was recently learned that Keenan said "No-Gi is jiu jitsu's lame, less technical brother, who you don't really want to hang out with because he's really sweaty all the time. But he's still your brother, so once a year you still need to give him attention and love to show him that he's still in the family". Thoughts?
now I see why me and no-gi jiu jitsu get along so well, he just described my childhood perfectly :)
I think there is a correlation vs. causation confusion in the jiu jitsu community. A lot of the older generation of Gracie's had mustaches. I don't think it was the mustaches that made them great. Or maybe it is, mustaches are badass.
I don't blame people who love the gi. I think its only natural as human beings to want to belong to something with as proud of a tradition as Jiu Jitsu. There are times I think about Gigoro Kano's school battling it out with other schools to prove the superiority of his Jiu Jitsu. Then the Gracie family and their matches against the Japanese to prove the superiority of their Jiu Jitsu. It's extremely honorable. As a kid, I idolized people in gi's. Personally, I feel more connected to Jiu Jitsu by being a part of the most advanced Jiu Jitsu system, not by wearing the traditional uniform. But that doesn't have to be for everybody. I plan to teach my sons Jiu Jitsu, and to teach them being a part of Jiu Jitsu is a great honor that brings along certain responsibilities as a man. I can see how dressing in the traditional uniform will help convey that to young people, so I could see why you should teach young people in the gi. But ultimately, the message of Jiu Jitsu is developing the most effective martial art, not clinging to a particular uniform.
Keenan took back the lame comment. I believe he's also said he competes better without the gi, and he won no-gi worlds at brown his division and absolute with all submissions. He won the ADCC Trials with all submissions and I expect him to medal at ADCC this year. He is also planning on doing the no-gi Worlds this November at black belt as long as he doesn't get injured at ADCC. I'd expect him to medal there as well. He still enjoys training no-gi and is very good at it. He trained no-gi at BJ Penn's for a couple years before he ever put a gi on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Perez
Overall the gi vs. no-gi question is asked by interviewers because it's an easy question to ask. It's almost as default as "When did you start training." But largely among serious practitioners there isn't much of a debate.
The best people do both. And most of these guys aren't having conversations about what makes you better. They just train hard in both. During gi season they train gi. During no gi season they train no gi. The best grapplers are the best grapplers, no matter what they wear.
The best guys. Ask Marcelo Garcia or Rafael Mendes. They love both. They do both. I know this is a largely no-gi forum but as long as the best grapplers continue to do both (they will) you are going to continue to get a variety of different answers when people ask the gi vs. no-gi questions.
At the end of the day Keenan Cornelius by the end of the year has the chance to be the best active American no-gi competitor. And he's already top 3-5. I would like to see a Lovato Jr x Keenan match at ADCC.
I remember that instagram comment. I understand his pov. He prefers the gi. He took back the comment that it is lame. Basically he was joking. No biggie to me.
I don't really give a shit what Keenan Cornelius thinks...
I like no-gi. It's fun.
You took him too seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Spalla
I thought it was funny.
My take on the gi/no-gi debate is this:
Do what makes you happy. Most people have no interest in competing at all, much less being a world champion; the whole idea of which one makes you better at the highest levels never even comes in to play for them. So just do what seems like the most fun to you. Even if it's Tae Kwon Do. Some of us are into the art. Some of us are into the martial. Some of us just need to lose some weight. Whatever. It's your journey. Do what helps you put positive energy back into your little corner of the universe.
This is why I call Brandon when I lose my shit. How much simpler could it be explained yet profound and deep at the same time. I love me some BMac :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Exactly! You gotta do what you enjoy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Nailed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Couldn't disagree more...jiu jitsu is about winning and when I stop winning I'll just quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Great post MikeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nall
During the interview he said, " You have to be able to accept the fact, that at any moment your opponent can just slip away". Seems like criteria for a technical clench based style. I do and love both, but I see the lack of grips as a challenge to be addressed as opposed to a fact that must be accepted.
But I'm not even in the same zipcode as Keenan. I dont have seasons. I do gi and nogi at all my tournies and he is used to gettin a couple grand a pop. Dude pretty much is competition jiu jitsu personified. His mindset trips me out. I believe him. Multiple world titles in his future. Have to look at his opinions from the perspective in which he gave them. But still, dude knows what he's talkin about, and if he can't control an opponent nogi I sure as hell couldn't. From his perspective, he only rolls the best in the world. I would probably wish Rafa had a lapel and sleeves too.
Whether he took the comment back or not..in the back of his head he still has little belief and little confidence in nogi. Even if there's that tad bit of doubt. If he doesn't believe in it 100%, not 100% Gi and only 90% nogi..100% in both, then he's probably not going to ever be the best there is..At least in nogi. But who knows!!
No offense, but the fact that a white belt (or any belt that doesn't train like a pro athlete) would say that Keenan Cornelius has "little belief and little confidence in nogi" is baffling. He never said anything about belief or confidence. Honestly Keenan just dislikes sweaty and slippery mats...you're reading way too much into an Instagram post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tori Applegate
You're talking about a guy that submitted everyone at the no-gi worlds at brown belt in his weight and at Absolute. He tapped out Sinistro and Magid Hage. He did the Kumite and submitted all 12 of the absolute highest caliber brown belts no-gi. He qualified to go to ADCC (the most prestigious/elite no-gi competition on earth) by submitting everyone at the trials, and he's about to go there, then do a no-gi superfight with Lucas Leite a week or 2 later, and THEN go do the No Gi Worlds at black belt a week or 2 after that. He's said that he's better no-gi than gi.
This guy is a No-Gi monster. He believes in it 100% and to say otherwise is just simply wrong. The kid got right in there into a leg lock battle with Dean Lister of all people. He is confident as shit.
Keedog is probably our best American grappler and I too think it's silly to argue one is better than the other in jiu jitsu. The best are the best at both so until you have guys who only train nogi consistnly beating guys like Braulio or Keenan or Ciao let it go. I love jiu jitsu you could ware a bathroab and a gorilla mask and kill and I'd be a fan!
People don't understand that he's not talking about which is better or more effective. He's saying he prefers the gi. That's it. He just made a smart ass remark about it. But in essence he's just cracking wise, not hating.
Wow, you make a lot of assumptions huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Nall
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rosado
I hope not. I went off the post that I quoted. If I took something out of context or misunderstood then I genuinely apologize. If you read the post I quoted I saw the following statement:Quote:
Originally Posted by sean applegate
"in the back of his head he still has little belief and little confidence in nogi. Even if there's that tad bit of doubt. If he doesn't believe in it 100%, not 100% Gi and only 90% nogi..100% in both, then he's probably not going to ever be the best there is..At least in nogi. "
Now unless I'm reading this wrong, this person is saying that Keenan has little belief and confidence in their own nogi abilities or nogi training in general. I'm getting that from the first sentence. Then I see a sentence about some stats having to do with 100% gi and 90% no-gi, when Keenan Cornelius never said anything about what's more effective, or how much faith he has in each. See David Rosado's post that I quoted up top. Keenan simply made a joke on his Instagram.
So when it's obvious that Keenan is just saying he prefers training in the gi, but still loves training no-gi too, and does as good if not better in no-gi---it threw me off to see someone saying that he doesn't believe in himself or in no-gi training, or that he can't ever be the best in no-gi.
Again maybe I read too much into it but Tori Applegate's post seemed pretty direct and straightforward. I didn't mean any disrespect and just wanted to give a quick rundown of his recent no gi accomplishments and that he has a ton of no-gi work slated up over the coming weeks.
If I offended or made any assumptions my bad. I can see how what I said came off as condescending but it wasn't meant that way. No harm intended.
I understand what you are saying. There were, for sure, some miscommunications here. She was saying, by leaving that comment, he gave us a little insight into Hus personal perspective. He doesn't believe nogi is as deep as GI. That's true.it doesn't mean he thinks nogi is irrelevant or that he has no confidence. It just means with that type of outlook, he won't be the greatest nogi guy out there. He may be the best nogi competitor out there, but does that make you the best guy? I guess that just depends on your outlook. You both make solid real points, but you aren't talking about the same thing. Hope that clears it up. No offense taken. :)
when i here people say Nogi is less technical i always think of this interview with Dean Lister, where say that its not less technical but a technical in different ways.
http://youtu.be/Zbve3gpNJdI?t=6m5s
Dean Lister vid = End of thread. Good day.
I like nogi more the gi because it's closer to Mma.
Mma is what got me into Jiu Jitsu it's not the other way around.
I totally understand Brazilians liking the gi more than nogi. It's part of their culture. Most of them were wearing gi's before ever watching an Mma event. Plus luta Livre was nogi and the old school bjj'ers hated them :-)
One of the drawbacks of the internet is when we unintentionally talk at cross purposes.
We bang on and on about technique, and so we should! But as important as technique is for MMA physical conditioning is just as important and in many instances more so. Compare Palhares or Jacare's UFC endeavours to Roger's. Technique was not enough to save Roger against a gatekeeper.
I love that 10th Planet equally attracts Jiu Jitsu and MMA fanatics. But relating to what Sam says , just now in 2013 were heading in two directions almost, and it's not fair to be compared with bjj schools who take zero interest in MMA and all share one common goal.
Sometimes I think some of these ppl mastering berimbolos and 50/50 and talking nothing but technique all the time, dissing no gi because it exploits their lack of physical prowess should just stick with chess and leave fighting to the athletes.
I think he was just messing around with the post anyways.
He goes on, in his interview with budo jake, to talk about how he thinks nogi far less technical than gi and how people just slip out of things.
Bing!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon mccaghren