I always hear people talking about how great the marcelotine is. I think Jon Jones's guillotine is way better. Why don't people ever talk about that?
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I always hear people talking about how great the marcelotine is. I think Jon Jones's guillotine is way better. Why don't people ever talk about that?
I think it's personal preference. Jones guillotine was great, it worked money against a BJJ blackbelt but you have to turn you hand palm to palm and IMHO the ball and socket grip feels more natural to go to maybe that's why.
Better for who?
Its because Jones is better at jiu jitsu
The prayer grip. Good if youre not on your back ie- opponent is pinned against the fence. Unnecessary transition otherwise. Checkmate in fewest possible moves=best.
I definitely prefer the Marcelotine. I have trouble getting my short arms deep enough to make that prayer choke work very well. When I have managed to put it together it works incredibly well, though.
Marcelotine is a low risk, high reward attack. It doesn't expend very much energy, even if it fails, and it doesn't usually leave you terribly out of position.
True, I would say Jon Jones has the best Jiu Jitsu in the UFC's LHW division.Quote:
Originally Posted by sean applegate
Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
Jon Jones would most likely smash Marcelo in a bjj match.
The marcelotine is higher percentage. The prayer choke is good, but can still rendered useless when they pass. The marcelotine's high elbow makes it harder for the person to pass or shove their head in to get room to breath (slack in the grip, which is already minimalized with the marcelotine). Also, the Marcelotine is more of an air choke (which is more painful, as it's crushing the throat). The prayer is a blood choke. Most people just tap from the pain.
Elbows are not allowed in a BJJ match, no way Jones takes Marcelo in pure grappling. Add in the elbows and a cage and things would get interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
HahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
Thanks I needed a good laugh todayQuote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
Do you live under a bridge? 😄Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
Cannot tell if you're joking or serious >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
Insert Zog's latest pic on this thread....
He is just jealous of my white belt swag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Elliott
please shower me in your greatness!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
Hehehehehehehe, nice choice of words. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Elliott
I think it's pretty easy to say objectively that Marcelo Garcia's high-elbow guillotine is a better choke all around for jiu jitsu and submission grappling.
You can't base everything off results, but I don't think I've ever seen a prayer/Jones guillotine in high level grappling. Maybe 1 or 2. I've seen dozens of high-elobw guillotines at the highest levels of grappling and MMA.
The high elbow guillotine takes less muscle to finish, and can generally be finished from more spots. Also, the lifted elbow/forearm blocks their shoulder from driving into you and flattening you out, so once the elbow lifts is basically impossible to stop.
"Dontch listen to datch guy, he's a white beltch!"
What doesn Jones guillotine look like? Was it just in a ufc? My computer blew out a couple weeks ago, is there youtube links?
I know the high elbow (marcelotine), low elbow, traditional arm in, 10 finger guillotine and this sgrip variations one of my students keep making people go unconcious using. Whats different between the Jones one?
Marcelo landed that guillotine on every high level player, he lands it and can finish it from every position including bottom side control. Thats why its called a Marcelotine can Jones do that with his?
I dont know this guy, but I'm pretty sure it's the same choke. Mckenzitine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtg1S2nl-i8
Is this the Jones guillotine?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill Schwartz
I came from the behring self defense progressive guard system before switching to 10th planet and we called this a low elbow guillotine.
Dont you just take your free arm and reach it far over my back to defend that? Thats why you pop the elbow over the shoulder with the high elbow version is to stop that defense.
Does jones finish from mount?
Hard to go wrong with a Marcelotine
For the first time in my life, I am at a loss for words...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Navarro
This is the right answer. I think not only is this a strong case but it's spread so far and been used by others with unparallelled success as well. Since the grappling community's knowledge of Marcelo's guillotine really exploded after ADCC 2009 I would say almost every single elite level grappler prefers to use the high-elbow guillotine. It's been used successfully by all belts at the NoGi Worlds and at ADCC by plenty of grapplers not named Marcelo Garcia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Brick
This isn't even a guard or anything like that. It's just a submission. And it's exploded like crazy over the past 4 years. I can't think of any submission since the Darce that has exploded like crazy and Marcelo basically changed the way that everyone does the guillotine. You still see some arm-in guillotines and other guillotine variations, especially in MMA, but in NoGi grappling these days it's almost all high-elbow the higher the level gets.