My Japanese necktie be so cranky

Crew, any advice on my my Jap Necktie always ends up getting a tap from it being uncomfortable and cranky as opposed to choking people with it? Can't remember who I saw on these forums put someone to sleep with it in competition so I know that's the goal and it's legit.

Am putting it on super slow and playing with different angles once I lock it up but no ones close to snoozing from it and I hate being one those guys getting taps from just 'uncomfortable feeling shit'

Any common little tweeks people make to 'choke' it up. Have watch Zog's vid over and over but can't see anything I'm missing.

Cheers.

It can be more of a neck crank. The main points to focus on are having a tight vice grip, hooking their leg at the heel, then falling in front of them and pushing your hips forward. Have you examined your vice grip? Maybe there's something that's small there that needs tweeking.

http://www.10thplanetjj.com/techniques/purple-to-black/
is the MTS where Eddie explains "it's such a powerful neck crank dudes will probably tap before you get to the choking part."

I feel it is just a matter of centimeters, if that choking arms bone gets the artery or not. I went thru the same thing a few months back, I don't like neck cranks, so I made the effort to resist puttin' muscle into it. If I do everything correct I get the tap from the choke with no muscle or just hold the position and tweak that choking arm into place. Since it is just training, I just give it up and try again if it is not correct. I can usually keep top position with the overhook and just try again. Just crankin' the neck for the sake of the tap teaches me nothing about the choke! Also, sometimes it can be the legs. Seems WAY better if I can get right behind his heel, intsead of just behind his knee.

Same, I hate crank taps that's why I'm trying to get it sorted. Has to be the vice grip.

The jap is 2 neck cranks and a choke in one. A crank from the vice grip and crank from your stomach smashing their head with a twist.

The twister is a neck crank so you shouldn't be too anti-crank :-)

I could be completely wrong, as my Jap has always been a crank, but the blood choke would come from the forearm against one artery, and squeezing elbows together? it would be just hitting the right position... that crank comes on so quick though, i'd be happy taking it? it's a beautiful move, not like your jsut grapping and twisting someones head beast mode style...

Your JNT gets the tap. So where is the problem?
;)

Interesting. Why am I so 'anti-crank?' Don't actually know after the points made above. Suppose after I saw the whoever it was snooze the guy in the comp with it, I always thought when it's right they get choked, when it's wrong it's cranky.

Now reconsidering my thought process and issues. Supposed it's based on not wanting to be thought of as 'one of those guys' doing shit that hurts, but when the goal is to submit someone, what's my issue.

Got more voices in my head than Eminem :)

If you reach to far through the point on the neck that you are applying pressure to will shift off of their artery and onto the spine or side of the neck.

People will always say its a crank, but to me a crank is on the spine. Sometimes youll have the choke but put to much pressure and people will cry crank but would go out unconscious anyways

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Originally Posted by Tim Bruhn

Same, I hate crank taps that's why I'm trying to get it sorted. Has to be the vice grip.

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Couple things. 1st I hate crank taps too, at least in class. I try to be as nice to my friends and training partners as possible so I try to adjust head-and-arms and guillotines as much as possible to try to make them clean blood chokes. That said in a competition it really doesn't matter.

But about cleaning up your chokes, I think the J Necktie is definitely the hardest of all the head and arms to make a clean choke. With arm triangles and darces and anacondas you can really adjust your arm and body placement to get angles that won't crank them as much. With the J Necktie you're just crushing them with the vice grip and your body.

That's just the nature of the position. Like Eddie said if you like the necktie and the twister you just gotta embrace the crank. In the rules it's technically an arm triangle like the darce, anaconda, regular arm triangle, ezekiel. Those are chokes that also can crank. The J Necktie is more of a crank that also chokes.

You know Tim, I just the JNT in my game a lot. I think the crankiness depends on the persons build. If I use it on guys my size, it is a crank, but if I use it on guys that are big and meaty, it is a blood choke that WILL (and does) put a big guy to sleep if he doesn't tap.
I can't control their body type, so I just know that when I put on the JNT I have to tie up those legs and keep it all tight to get the tap. Either crank tap or choke tap is fine with me because I don't get jerky anyways, I always try to apply pressure slowly with control once it's locked in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQ-G7xUG24

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Originally Posted by Mike Nall

In the rules it's technically an arm triangle like the darce, anaconda, regular arm triangle, ezekiel. Those are chokes that also can crank. The J Necktie is more of a crank that also chokes.

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What are you talking about, that wasn't no neck crank. It was a mounted arm-in guillotine.

Thanks for the vid repost, was the one I remembered. Such a slick sweep to sleep.

As Kurzy said, think I just have to get over myself and as long as I'm not getting jerky and staying slow and methodical with it in training it should be cool.

We went through a series of JNT variations in Einstein's class awhile ago and a little thing that I haven't seen mentioned here yet is pulling the arm that is on the mat up/rotating your upper body outwards. If there is any displacement of your vice grip around their neck when you fall to your side, this slight adjustment may fix it and thus drive your arm into their throat deeper when you hip in.

I'm not sure if my explanation is clear at all, but I've found that that trick, along with the hip-thrusting and leg-hooking, will seal the deal.

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Originally Posted by Chad Clark

What are you talking about, that wasn't no neck crank. It was a mounted arm-in guillotine.

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What? I'm confused. I wasn't talking about a video or anything like that. I was just saying that neck cranks are allowed at the adult level in every grappling comp/ruleset as long as the crank happens as a result of a choke. Like arm triangles (side choke, darce, JNT, anaconda, etc.) I haven't watched any videos in this thread so i wasn't talking about any mounted guillotines or anything like that.

Sorry my comment should've read: If in a tournament or something and someone cries neck crank trying to get you DQ'd, you could say it was a mounted arm-in guillotine. Personally, I think a tap is a tap, and while neck cranks may be dangerous, and much like other taboo submissions *coughcoughleglockscoughheelhooks* both people need to know to a)not be a douche and dont crank the sub and b) not be an idiot and tap early.

You nailed it Chad.

see my video post on the forum. you are welcome

That's why you're my favourite 10thPJJer Scott. That and I get to see your junk when you just wear tights.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQ-G7xUG24

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this is the video opened my jnt game up just due to failing a darce i wanted a back up some say its a choke some say a crank

i just say its arm In