Ideas on Royce Gracie defeat to Matt Hughes

Hi everyone, I'm quite new to MMA and Jiu-jitsu. Got into it in 2007. I practice Boxing and have done a little Jiu-jitsu here and there at various schools on my travels. I have seen most of the UFC's and alot of Pride stuff and generally watch any MMA show thats on. However I certainly do not consider myself an expert but I have an opinion in my head about why Royce lost his fight to Matt Hughes.

Basically Matt knew Jiu-jitsu and coming from a Wrestling background he was much stronger, faster and generally more athletic on the ground then Royce. He also seemed to be much better conditioned. Also Royce being 39 probably didn't have the quickness or reflexes he had at age 26 in UFC 1. All these factors contributed to his quick defeat in my eyes.

I thought I would ask this question here as this forum seems to be full of intelligent, sensible and knowledgible people unlike some other places where the common answers seem to be Royce was paid to throw the fight or that he entered the Cage in a wheelchair or that he was always shit at fighting and is most overated loser ever.

I'm really interested in what the informed people on this site actually think were the reasons Royce lost?

Thanks

Hughes has that farmer strength, and has had so much experience in the cage that he knows exactly how to prepare. MMA fighters these days and even when that happened are nothing like the guys he competed against in UFC 1-4. Gracie Jiu Jitsu is awesome and all, but it alone, even at the highest level, doesn't necessarily win you an MMA fight, especially when the guy you're fighting is well rounded.

I have a much simpler answer. Hughes, was better at BJJ and submission grappling than Royce. Royce has never been a high level BJJ guy. Even back in his heyday, he was a complete non factor in the competitive BJJ scene. Add this to the fact Hughes is a much better athlete, and well, the guy who comes into the fight who is better at submission grappling, the better athlete, and in better shape, tends to win just about every time, when those are the factors mattering most (in this case because neither guy was looking to strike much).

I do not believe that Royce was over-rated, Nor do I believe he threw the fight. I feel that Hughes was simply better and more experienced. I feel that Royce was great in his day against people who didn't know anything about Jiu-Jitsu and he just failed to evolve with the sport . Maybe if he took the same approach that the modern fighters do about being well rounded he could have won. I am thankful for Royce bringing Jiu-Jitsu to the attention of the world.

"Royce had never been a high level bjj guy" wow, pretty disrespectful to a guy willing to fight no holds barred against people with upwards of 100 pounds on you. Anyway, the fight was really quick between the two, but if you slow it down
And watch it position by position and pay close attention to Gracie's hand positions and movement he wasn't doing half bad. Matt Hughes was renown for DEVASTATING ground and pound but wasn't able to get a shot off untill the last seconds of the fight. That feat alone is pretty amazing. I'm my low-level blue belt opinion, I think when Hughes went for the straight armbar it surprised Royce and he panicked. Watch after he escapes how frantic he becomes, then he made a critical mistake, he gave Hughes his back.

Matt Hughes bad also never finished a fight on someone's back before, so it became evident that he studied the positional strategies of jiu jitsu and adopted them. I think if Rouce didn't panic, respected the technical abilities of Hughes more, and they had no time limit, Royce would have taken Nawful beating but would eventually have caught Matt in something he could t get out of. I think the match was a bad move for Royce anyway though, the Gracie clan clearly underestimated the champion-worthy technique and abilities Hughe's possessed.

And I apologize my awful spelling :-)

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Originally Posted by Lsloewen

"Royce had never been a high level bjj guy" wow, pretty disrespectful to a guy willing to fight no holds barred against people with upwards of 100 pounds on you. Anyway, the fight was really quick between the two, but if you slow it down
And watch it position by position and pay close attention to Gracie's hand positions and movement he wasn't doing half bad. Matt Hughes was renown for DEVASTATING ground and pound but wasn't able to get a shot off untill the last seconds of the fight. That feat alone is pretty amazing. I'm my low-level blue belt opinion, I think when Hughes went for the straight armbar it surprised Royce and he panicked. Watch after he escapes how frantic he becomes, then he made a critical mistake, he gave Hughes his back.

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Its not disrespectful. Its history. Royce was awesome for what he did, and introduced a whole lot of people to BJJ. But, in the BJJ circles back then, he was a non factor. Did you miss his match with Wallid when Wallid challenged his BJJ skill level?

Also, regarding Hughes not finishing fights on someone's back, are you kidding about that? He finished Clark in '99 via rear naked choke. Its not like it was the first time he had taken someone's back.

To add to the thought that he was paid to throw the fight...I actually have been thinking a lot in the past few years on that subject. Cause, you know...we see a lot of fighters from the Pride Organization coming into the UFC since Pride was bought out by Zuffa. Some of those fighters come in a lose a very definitive loss. I think sometimes, not always, that Pride legends are paid to come into the UFC and are paid to throw the fight to gain Hype for new UFC fighters. Of course the UFC wants to make it look like they have the best fighters in the world and of course everybody has there price. So it is plausible, but there is no real proof of it.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

Also, regarding Hughes not finishing fights on someone's back, are you kidding about that? He finished Clark in '99 via rear naked choke. Its not like it was the first time he had taken someone's back.

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And don't forget about his RNC finish of Frank " Twinkle Toes" Trigg...Twice!

I think dude being 39 probably had the most to do with it and yes the MMA game had developed. It is funny how whenever someone loses, they are considered overrated no matter at what level. Wow.

I should def do research before regurgitating facts :-). Still look at Hughes vs. Almedia. Almedia is like 5 years younger and Hughes slaughtered him with a modified anaconda choke, and he is a big BJJ name. Point being, Hughes is a scary man.

Age had nothing to do with it But something to think about is Royce doesn't cut weight he walks around close to 170 that being said I think Matt Huges would win in a straight sub. grappling match. Hes just better. Royce will always be a legend for what he did but his Jiu Jitsu is not even on the same leval as Rickson or Royler or some of the all time greats like JJ Machado. Theres black belts then there is Bad Ass's. The ranking system ends at black but the skill leval doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Lsloewen

I should def do research before regurgitating facts :-). Still look at Hughes vs. Almedia. Almedia is like 5 years younger and Hughes slaughtered him with a modified anaconda choke, and he is a big BJJ name. Point being, Hughes is a scary man.

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Was a front headlock. However, Like I said, Hughes was better at BJJ than Royce, which was why he beat him. As for Almedia, Hughes beat him in abu dhabi before as well. Chokes are alot easier to do on guys who are half knocked out though. For his part I would agree Almedia is at a good deal higher BJJ level than Royce, but the real reason he got choked by Hughes had alot more to do with a nice left hook than with grappling skill level differences.