After seeing the baratoplata and reverse spider web threads, I was reminded of those old puppet master vids from distant past. Wondering if any of you have played the game and if so, thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgDju95X0xc
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After seeing the baratoplata and reverse spider web threads, I was reminded of those old puppet master vids from distant past. Wondering if any of you have played the game and if so, thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgDju95X0xc
I remember Zog saying they tested it a while ago and it had too many holes. Im not sure exactly what failed in this (I would actually love to know Zog). I seems though if you have a strong pyramid clinch, all you need to do is hook that arm and everything else is money, especially at least the sweep, but then again Im a fuckin retard so there's that....
Ok I'll give a real quick abriged version as I've told the story in length detail before a few times.
1)I just need to say this the "Wolverine" and his family are super nice people.
2)Any system that overlooks or bypasses legit solid submission attemps for less effcient and more complex sets of techniques is seriously flawed.
3)If you post technique videos, you better be able to pull that information off on live resistant human beings, and it must work on skilled people.
4)When he came and rolled with me and my students he got smashed by everyone, even my white belts. His RG didn't exist beyond mission control, even when guys were allowing him to start there.
5)He had claimed some rank before coming there, and then told me to my face he had no offical rank.
So fun to catch on white belts you have 20lbs on
Def a fun move to go for but I have yet to see it used effectively. The transition from back mount seems like a legit transition though. The trick is getting the rubix cube but I have some difficulty getting that foot hooked in. I think doing it from a stock might be an easier transition but haven't tested it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_InWLdw0iw
This is the ninja plata and if I ever catch this choke for some reason, that's what I'm calling it. This existed first and Horwich has done it in pro MMA. This guy seems like a nice guy, but I don't find anything he added to be significantly useful. To bad the ninja-plata is always associated with this guy instead of Horwich.
I don't see any reason to not change the name if someone starts hitting it regularly. Puppet Master is a cool name and all but its quite obvious the reps haven't been put in by Jeff to get the honor of naming it. Maybe he came up with a rough path but not high percentage at all. Then again whats in a name...
Since its along the lines of a crucifix Id like to take it to the lab and see if there's a better way to do it. Gotta be some worth.
I dunno, I use this system often, mostly for the sweep, triangle, and kimura. I can't say I've hit in on a black belt or anything, but then again, you can't hit much of anything against the black belts I'm exposed to on a regular. I'm not as qualified as mr herzog, but I feel if you have a strong wrist grip, and loose hips for a mobile half guard/ high guard that leads to omo or gogoplatas this is something that isn't far off the basic path and concept of 10pjj. If you have long legs, and decent dexterity in them, this is a money move against a half guard pass, or when top player tries to force a low leg to the mat and tries to pass on his knees. But that is my humble opinion
I remember watching wolverine's videos back in the day! hahah
Crazy how far we have come. This was the preforum era, back when eddie would still post videos on youtube with technique, and submissions 101 was barely becoming affiliated with 10th planet. I guess those days have come and gone. haha
Interesting to finaly hear about zog and his guys meeting wolverine and rolling with him.
I wish all that was high percentage stuff, how cool would THAT be!? Getting your opponent to raise his elbow high enough to fit your foot through is the tough part. It can happen and has happened, Horwich pulled it off in Mma but once ur opponent is hip to it the odds of him raising his elbow that high goes way down. If someone can show me a legit set up please show me ASAP, this all looks awesome. I can get the stock aka sanitarium every once and a while but that's pretty much in the same league as the rubix cube
I always wondered how you viewed the Puppet Master. Looks like if there's a legit set up you'd be open to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
nuff saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I'm always looking for the puppet master when I roll, mostly because it's fun. I like the transition from the back because it's easier to hook the arm with your foot. One modification I've made is I always grab my own foot so they can't unhook their arm. It feels like a very strong position when it's locked in.
Just out of curiosity, when you bail on the triangle for the omaplata, do you consider that bailing on a solid submission for a lesser finishing rated submission? Or wasnt transitioning from the back mount to the truck considered moving to a lesser position?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I said:
"2)Any system that overlooks or bypasses legit solid submission attempts for less efficient and more complex sets of techniques is seriously flawed."
I didn't say transitioning from submission to submission, or from a dominate positions to a dead zone.
Bypassing a triangle (high % tested technique) in the first stage of his transition to a far more complex, less secure transition requiring a large degree of movement, that could create opportunities for his opponent is far less efficient. Like I said before I gave him ample opportunity to make it work on me and prove me wrong, and that didn't happen, it didn't even happen on my whites/blues.
I gotcha. More so just making conversation. I know what you meanQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
wow puppet master brings back memories. i havnt even thought about it in 3 ish years. i remember when coach zog first said it didnt work, i was gutted, its just such a cool looking move. but i agree with eddie. its sooo crazy getting the foot under there that its not really worth it.
One of my beginner students was asking me about the puppet master a couple of weeks ago. I think he almost didn't believe me when I told him there was a guy with mutton chops called "Wolverine" who had a youtube series on the position years ago.
Thanks for this thread. I will direct him here.
I think my sensei has a fairly legit setup for the rubix cube. He doesn't play rubber guard a lot anymore, but I think he got the technique watching Jerome Basilio, not Wolverine. But I don't think it is his number one rubber guard move either. Usually when I see him play rubber guard he sets up the stock and executes a crooked triangle.
I showed a few lads in the club the puppet master a while back and they've started using it for rsw transitions and leaving it in for kimuras from there etc. but it feels like they have a bit less control in rsw because of it.
One of the guys on here David Anderson is extremely tall and has been to make it a high percentage part of his game, gets it with very little effort
I find going from the meathook to hindu control sets up the puppet master nicely, but yeah you're right, them long legs make it a death trap if its done right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor Garvey
Crickleys drags into it are death as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Keith Kavanagh
He doesn't even use the RG stuff to set it up, its like a flying puppet master. Dudes a beast
I usually set it up from the meat hook it's by far the easiest way as long as you control the wrist, and if they can slip the arm out then you have the triangle.
In the video below, Neil Melanson uses the Irish Collar to reach the Boston Handshake, which isolates the arm in the same way as the rubix cube, but using your hand instead of your foot:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo
https://youtu.be/8nD2Goq33yw?t=10m33s
So maybe the Boston Handshake could help set up the rubix cube. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfI22dZ979A
Looks like some Judokas mess around with it too.