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But somehow this guy does.
Stick around and you will have this conversation 9,999 times. Literally.
hes just bad ass in jj thats why hes submitting everyone. but that doesnt mean gi helps jj for mma.. hes just an exeption.
lmao. true.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
According to Sherdog, he has a record of 11-0. 10 of those wins were submission wins over relative nobodies except for an over-the-hill Sakuraba who was on a losing streak. One of those losses was to Jason Miller, who does NOT train in the gi, and he won with the same submission that this guy also beat Sakuraba with: the arm-triangle. His last fight was his UFC debut against a mediocre fighter named David Mitchell who he did NOT submit and Mitchell was promptly released after this being his 4th loss out of 5 fights in the UFC.
Not a convincing argument for the gi in my opinion.
No doubt, I could be wrong, but I feel like tatami paid him to say that shit...I mean its not rashanal what he is saying at all
nah man. MANY bjj guys think this.. its pretty sad really.Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon berdahl
Seems like its only Brazilians think this.
more like ignorant bjj guys. not just Brazilians.Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon berdahl
Nah, I don't think he got paid. My whole news feed was flooded earlier with posts from bjj cats agreeing with him.
I say, do what works. If the GI helps you, awesome. If it doesn't, awesome. Do you.
I don't train in the GI at all and I don't have an inch of trouble with GI players. That's my experience though. I know really talented players that think otherwise.
Sigh...
Can someone fill me in on his fight record? He says 12-0 All Submissions, but his fight record says otherwise; 11 pro fights with 1 decision win.
I'm assuming this video was shot before his UFC debut and that he included amateur bouts into his fight total.
I know that Marcelo is big on training both no gi and gi; the gi apparently is to slow things down so that one can be as technical as possible instead, of being extremely reliant on being slippery for escapes and athleticism for attacks and what not. After beginning to train in the gi with these guys, I can definitely say that I agree, to an extent. The problem is that some people have such dramatic shifts between how they play in the gi vs how they play no gi. If you look at Marcelo, his game is almost identical for both, thus allowing him to constantly improve. He's not playing some useless no gi technique while in the gi. That would be counter productive. However, our system allows us to circumvent the gi. Whereas the gi is meant to allow more control and slow the pace, so is our system of clinching. This makes us able to train completely no gi and still have top notch technique (not saying that I do, I'm just a white belt :) ). I just wish there was a moon down here in SoFlo.
I do think it's necessary to train in the gi, simply to learn how to defend the gi grips. Can give you fits if you decide to compete in the gi and don't know how to defend them.
I tried watching the entire thing, but when he said the training is geared for MMA but it is with the gi and the video was of a student drilling alternating triangles from spider guard, that is just too much.
Most pro-gi people point out how so many gi champions come in and wreck no-gi competitions and say "there is the proof, you have to train in the gi now." How about this: what if it had nothing to do with what you are or are not wearing when you are training, but how often you are training overall? If there are more gi classes than no-gi classes (as I suspect there are at most gi schools), of course people are going to say you must train in the gi to get better, or else you would not have near as much mat time. Even if the split is 50/50 like at Marcelo's school, if you don't put on a gi and go to the gi classes you are only getting to be on the mat for half the time.
It comes down to Eddie's hypothetical question from MTRG: all other things being equal other (except for training 10 straight years strictly in the gi playing tug-of-war to set up sweeps/subs or 10 straight years without the gi having to clinch with over hooks and under hooks) would you bet 1 million dollars on the gi world champion or the no-gi world champion with the match being no time limits, no-gi, submission only?
that's a good point. i think it would make a lot of sense to train in the gi while using marcelo's ideas for mma (cabral seemed to do tons of collar and sleeve grabbing).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
I'll post here what I posted on sherdog. It's hard to argue against logic:
The list of great fighters who were already superior wrestlers years before they ever touched a gi is much longer than those who don't. :)
Huge props to this guy for his record, but unless he becomes a champ, I'm still doubtful of this theory that gi makes your no gi better.
So far, the only person I can trust on this would be Keenan. He started off as no gi only and states gi made him better. But I wonder if it was the gi, or improvement in the quality of instruction that made the difference. I mean, on the other side, we have Dean Lister who barely dons the gi and he crushes gi guys often. Then you have Jake Shields who also never uses the gi and he crushes gi guys. And you have Marcelo who utilizes tech that is not dependent on the gi. Jean Jacques
I'm not sold on gi makes you better. Even gi guys take off the gi when training for no gi tourneys.
Do the best guys train in the gi? Obviously they do. Do the best guys train no gi only? Yes. LOL. But you gotta consider the proportion.
Let's use theoretical numbers here.
Let's say there are 100 BJJ practitioners. I'd say gi guys would comprise like 90 of those practitioners and no gi only guys would only be 10. Out of those 100 competitors, 10 are elite grapplers. In proportion, that would mean there would only be 1 elite no gi guy.
I think that makes sense. Since the majority of great grapplers are gi guys, it would make sense that most elite guys love the gi. But then you have Jake Shields out grapple Maia.
Now if we have like 100 no gi only guy make it to say, purple in no gi, but are sub standard, then they put the gi on and within a year they become monsters (under the same instructor), then I'll believe this theory that gi helps your no gi.