what do you do if your instructor tells you a 10p position isn't effective

tonight, i was going for the reverse spider web (i know it's not an official 10p technique) but had trouble getting my leg over my opponents head, he kept blocking it with his right arm.

after class, i asked my instructor some ways to get around that arm, and he showed me some options, then i went into reverse spider web, and he said "that's not a good finishing position, if you can't get the kimura, go for the arm bar."

now, my instructor is a super cool laid back guy and is 10p friendly, but if he sees me going for it again and tells me again that it's not a good position, what do you do? i don't want to be disrespectful, but at the same time i want to keep working on this dead zone.

You should drill it more on your own so you have a higher success chance in class. If you are getting familiar with a new position/move, you probably aren't doing it effective just yet. It's really easy to say something doesn't work when the person attempting to do it isn't hitting the important details.

If he calls you out for trying it again.. Just be like "AAAh yeah sorry dude bad habit, Ill have to work on that" he'll stop calling you out for it then. Or you could just say ok. and let him get tired of calling you out to where he thinks youll have to learn the "hard way"

Marc, if you want to drill it with me let me know. Where were you setting it up?

It is official. So you locked the kimura grip from cross side? I imagine he showed you how to clear his head and get him on his side? Or switch and finish from scarf?

When someone tells me something isn't effective, I dismiss it as good natured ignorance. Drill it more and then have your opponent defend during the drill. Don't practice new moves during rolling.

Show him any Nathan Orchard highlight

Piss in his water bottle when he's not looking.

bring him to me and i will heel hook him!

Show him the world champion Cyborg's instructional with it in it.

If folks critique 10th planet, without experimenting with the techniques, they are jealous. If they are jealous then that's proof it works.

Show him the Orchard, Red Destroyer or Geo highlight reel

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Originally Posted by Scott Yockel

bring him to me and i will heel hook him!

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Eh, that probably wouldn't happen. lol

After talking to Marc, I kind of agree with the criticism he was given. I don't think you should go to reverse spider web while your foot is still trapped in half (top). That's why it was hard for him to swing the leg over and if you do it keeps your hips open way too wide. Plus the farside armbar (off the kimura) is easily the instructor's best dead zone.

drill it to perfection and start tapping his students with it.

Your instructor only had good intentions and is trying to help you be the best grappler you can be...

i get this too, its one of the problems with being a ronin, i had to put up with a 15 minute speech of how 10th planet moves like rubber guard, puts the body in positions that the body shouldnt move in and if your body doesnt anturally move in that way then you shouldnt do it. and then how hes talked about it to high level black belts and said that while the moves work on lower levels, it just doesnt work on higher levels at all...

its the most frustrating thing for me.

in this case, like bobby said, it was probably just good natured ignorance. there are soo many moves in jiu jitsu its impossible that everyone will know about everything.

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Originally Posted by Isaac Atley

i get this too, its one of the problems with being a ronin, i had to put up with a 15 minute speech of how 10th planet moves like rubber guard, puts the body in positions that the body shouldnt move in and if your body doesnt anturally move in that way then you shouldnt do it. and then how hes talked about it to high level black belts and said that while the moves work on lower levels, it just doesnt work on higher levels at all...

its the most frustrating thing for me.

in this case, like bobby said, it was probably just good natured ignorance. there are soo many moves in jiu jitsu its impossible that everyone will know about everything.

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If jiu jitsu only consisted of natural body movements, it wouldn't take so long to get a black belt. With that being said, your instructor was probably correct about the position. Always ask questions and prove to yourself the validity of techniques.

Theres a reason why youre paying for his instruction. Maybe you should listen to him. He sees things maybe you dont at this stage of your game

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Originally Posted by marc luu

tonight, i was going for the reverse spider web (i know it's not an official 10p technique) but had trouble getting my leg over my opponents head, he kept blocking it with his right arm.

after class, i asked my instructor some ways to get around that arm, and he showed me some options, then i went into reverse spider web, and he said "that's not a good finishing position, if you can't get the kimura, go for the arm bar."

now, my instructor is a super cool laid back guy and is 10p friendly, but if he sees me going for it again and tells me again that it's not a good position, what do you do? i don't want to be disrespectful, but at the same time i want to keep working on this dead zone.

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I'm thinking listen to him, but also drill it. if you put in reps, and he see's you hitting it in succession he'll probably be cool with it. Plus you said he's a cool open minded dude. Tell him to watch orchards breakdown of it, (or any of his highlights) and ask him what nate is doing right that you're doing wrong. I'm sure he'd be down to help your shit.

Nogo from half. Pass first.

Email him the thread with all the Reverse Spider Web videos.

Um... It seems like he is talking about a valid option. He's talking about the same arm-bar Cio Terra does from half guard with the kimora grip I assume? Seems like you would have to remove the leg side leg first, but other than that, really valid. Your ignoring a valid move I think, ask him about it. Why not learn his option also? Then call it "armbar from reverse spiderweb" or something and still be working that deadzone. Then after hes happy because you've done that for a few weeks, you can work other options too if you like... That's what I'd try... Seems like he's a cool guy that doesn't mean any disrespect...

That said, all the above advise is cool too ;)

He's your teacher. Don't dismiss what he's showing you bc you only want to do 10p stuff. Jiu Jitsu is Jiu Jitsu..there only exists things that are functional or not functional for you. There is only an easy or a hard way to do things. He's being open minded towards your style so check out his. Idk how many times Sean has showed us something I extremely dislike and it ends up fitting in my game really well and I can chain it with my other go to stuff.

Practice both. I doubt he is going to tell you to not go to that position, he doesn't sound like that kind of guy.

I think there is some misunderstanding with my OP, during my roll session, I hit the rsw from top half.

When troubling shooting with my instructor, I was doing it armbar from side control.


From side control, I got the Kimura grip, got my leg over the head, proceeded to get my other leg over, that's when he stopped me and told me that's not a good finishing position and then told me to go for the armbar.

Anyways, I'm gonna keep working on the rsw, but I'm also gonna explore the arm bar as well. But it's just like Nathan orchard said, guys have become so good at defending the arm bar, that's why I want to work on the rsw, because guys are gonna think you can't finish the Kimura.

And it's not that I don't want to listen to my instructor, I just want to know what to do in the future if he corrects my positioning when going for the rsw, especially if I'll be competing and asking him to review my game plan.