Printable View
It's a long time coming we had a thread for striking discussion. Topics from philosophy to footwork and from counter-punching to clinch strikes. Hopefully some of the more elite strikers will join in on the discussion. I am personally interested to see everyone's different ideas and philosophy on the striking game....
Love it! Interested to see what pops up here.
Someone start it off... Anyone have a question or a specific topic they would like to discuss?
Would it be worth it for somebody with horrible flexibility to begin kickboxing? I've thought about adding some kind of striking to my skills, but I probably couldn't even kick somebody at hip level I'm so inflexible.
Lol. This is essentially the same answer as Eddie gives people with that question about rubbed guard: The flexibility is achievable, it just takes work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarett Smith
On the second note. How I have my curriculum structured is only the highest level kickboxers are allowed to kick to the head. An even if your elite, doesn't mean your kicks are ready.. Kicking to the head is a "black belt" level move. Kicking to the body with round kicks is very dangerous for your feet and also the easiest kicks to counter by catching/takedown. So you wouldn't need that flexibility until way later in your career.. :)
Third of all: I don't believe you necessarily NEED anything more than push kicks and leg kicks to be an effective, quality kickboxer..
It will definitely be worth it. For starters, your flexibility will improve by you trying to kick higher then you are currently able to. Might even be good for that jits? And if you go the Muay Thai route, you can get great results by focusing on low-kicks, punches, knees and elbows, which require less flexibility, while you are working on getting your legs high in the air. Keeping the majority of your kicks low, I also find is a lot wiser if we think self-defense. Footwear, pants, surface (especially here in Norway with our icy winters), may all make high kicks a liability while low kicks are easier to pull off.
It's also great for leg dexterity, and getting your legs to do what you want them do, independent of your arms. Also good for jits, I would presume. Plus. I think it's plenty fun.
Scott Ray. Do you have any cool combos to incorporate the front kick/push kick into? I am usually just throwing it out there on its own, and make my combinations with low kick.
Of course.. The lead leg push kick to the lower belly treat it like a jab. Throw the cross (rear straight), or whatever you like after it. I like to use the lead leg inside kick to a cross also. Obviously after the cross you can throw a lead hook(3) to continue the combo.
I like the 2-3-leglock also. Come off at a hard angle toward your lead leg on this one.
Tons more but these are fundamental, first week of class type combos.. ;)
Kinda my philosophy on combos is like this. Not every strike is a power strike. Have a set power strike and that's the one you put the hot sauce on. Said strike must come after a strike (or motion) on the opposite side. Never have more than 2 power strikes per combo.
More to that philosophy, of course, but you get the idea so far.
The double and triple jab in to the leg kick is wonderful beginner combo also...
If I miss a left hook because of spacing (they run from it/move backward) then following that with a rear push kick is nice. Also try the inside leg kick to back leg push kick. Be sure you have propper footwork for balance and power... ;)
Nice, thanks! That's some cool ideas. One combo I love is the jab - step through cross - inside low kick.
Inside leg kick to back leg push kick sounds like a good one. Will work that some on the bag tomorrow, and throw it in at my next sparring with kicks.
what do you think is the most udervalued strike in mma?
effectiveness of short elbows used in GnP?
(i know this is controversial and depends a lot as to who is doing it) but best striking style suited for mma?
I'd love to hear someone compare and contrast dutch style counters and combos with Bang Muay Thai.
Bang Muay Thai IS Dutch Muay Thai.
For beginners stance and footwork are the single most important tool to develop.
Footwork can be the path to success, or it can be the route to all failure. If your footwork is well developed but your upper body movements are less refined it can help auto correct your upper body's movement (punches, defense, etc). If your upper is solid but your footwork is horrible it can corrupt your upper body and cause drastic over compensations (leaning, over extending, poor judge of range, etc.)
We place heavy emphasis on stance replacement, as the core component of footwork.
Are you fucking with me? 10th Planet Jiu jitsu is brazilian Jiu jitsu but its not the same as they teach at gracie barra.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I just thought that Bang would have plenty of things that are different enough from typical dutch style kickboxing to be of interest.
No, Duane's main background is Dutch Muay Thai, that doesn't mean he hasn't added alot to his system. But even Duane considers what we do as Dutch Muay Thai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
I always considered the definition of Dutch muay thai as Muay thai with more emphasis on adding western boxing fundamentals, so yeah.. And elbows in round one, hee hee hee... :}
Well, I did learn something interesting. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Woot!! I'm glad this thread took off!
The jab. The tiny gloves make a jab much more damaging than with boxing gloves. Also, with the small gloves, straight punches, cross as well as jab, are much more effective because they are much harder to block. People need to throw more straights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Atley
Best style is a Dutch hybrid or modified Dutch style. For sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
I was hoping footwork would come up. Footwork is to kickboxing what hip position is to jiujitsu...
This is my 64 year old trainer, Richard Batin, from Myanmar (Burma). They fight practically bare knuckled with head butts.. 56 years of Thai boxing experience .. He's the man :). http://youtu.be/bl7lT-4y5I0
Holding pad for me a couple years back.. Finding a great trainer you trust and consistency is the fastest way too improve :) http://youtu.be/pKRikSeqiD8
One of the coolest things I came across was watching videos in slow motion of the top mma knockout guys a couple years back. People think they are just brawling and hit hard but when you watch them over and over you can catch the tiny angles they are taking on people. I kept wonding why guys like Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei, Tokanori Gomi, and etc were knocking guys out with what looked like similar techniques over and over again. Just had to slow things down. Footwork is huge
Again, footwork is to kickboxing what hip positioning is to jiujitsu.
If your in guard with no angle, you can't sub him... Period. But if you have a good, deep angle, hell, pick you favorite sub, they're all there... (Basic analogy, lets not debate jiujitsu guard subs pls)
Same thing in kickboxing, if your off balance or flat footed or even simply in the wrong place, your never gonna land anything.
So, I've been landing an inside leg kick to a cross combo in class a lot lately... But I feel like after the cross I either need to 1) continue engaging if there are openings, or 2) get the heck out of striking distance before the other guy counters... So, are there any other options from here? And what kind of footwork can I use to create a better angle to continue my offense (i.e. should I try to get to the outside after the cross?)
For me, it depends a bit on how I enter with the kick. I will assume for now that both you and your opponent are orthodox. If you do a fast inside kick without stepping all the way through first, I would work on my placement of the left foot after the kick. Try to put it forwards at an angle, about 45 degrees outside of your opponent, and follow up with your cross from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosien Zare
If you manage to kick, land the foot at an angle and square up your hips while throwing the cross, thats a good spot to follow up. You could continue to your left while throwing an angling left hook, or blast through him with a cross-jab-cross maybe. If he stands his ground, a liver-shot is a good follow up to the initial cross.
Hope this makes some sense!
I would also introduce you to a concept we utilise a lot in Crazy Monkey Defense. The Safety Jab. It's main purpose is to help me make the return back to safety and the outside game, if I feel compromised on the inside. It's really easy to do, but can make a huge impact on your game. When I want to move back to safety I will throw a succesion of fast jabs while circling put. Not with the intention of hitting the opponent, but make him preoccupied with the jab, so that he will think twice about chasing you / attacking you.
Play around with this and let me know if it's helpful, or if I need to explain myself better.
Mirko got robbed at Glory!
So you should try peeling off on your hook. Swivel your back foot around as you throw the hook. It will create/maintain that angle you achieve with the kick and stepping off that for the cross.. Peel off on the 3!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosien Zare
Or, step back and then immediately back in and throw another 2. It's about timing.. Ill look for a video on the YouTube that's demonstrating what I'm talking about.
I loved watching Mirko when he was in his prime... Man those kicks! And his famous line. "Right leg hospital, left leg cemetery"
With bill keelings thread being so interesting, all other threads are now seemingly lack luster. :(. I loved this kickboxing thread too..
Also; lets resurrect the damn leglocks thread, it's way down there..
I haven't gotten my leglock discussion fix lately..
Favorite setups for the liver shot?
I usually land the left body punch off a successful slip to the left. So he could have throw any right punch and me duck or slip it. My head movement isn't my strong point and im an outside ranged striker...so this isn't my go-to stuff. After the duck/slip to the left, if you are inside (close range/clinching distance) then the left to the liver is available. If you are at a more ranged distance, then the body punch may need to be substituted for a more ranged strike. Clearly there's lots of good setups, but this is a very basic, fundamental place for that strike.
repeated left hooks the the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by JorgenBore
Slipping a right cross would be the most common.