jiu-jitsu Vs Wrestling thoguhts?

Hey guys, I've got a friend that wants to start grappling and I offered him to look into Brazilian Jiu-jitsu/ jiu-jitsu vs High school wrestling.

he has a bit of an ego and doesnt think highly of "guy rolling around in pajama's"

I told him, dont get me wrong, wrestling is good and can be effective but for a street fight BJJ/JJ will more than likely beat out High School wrestling. wrestling is a very strong and dominant foundation, however in a highschool setting, your mostly working for position and points.

wrestling is position, jiu jitsu is submission.

wrestling is extremely fun and effective but I would lean to jiu jitsu every time.
Its his choice but I told him to look into jiu jitsu aswell for a grappling art.

any advice, input, opinions etc?

please correct me if im wrong but, for high school and college wrestling, submissions arent even permitted correct?

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Originally Posted by Shannon

please correct me if im wrong but, for high school and college wrestling, submissions arent even permitted correct?

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thats true about wrestling. But many positions, tech can be very painful. Moves like the twister are legal.

Wrestling is good, but a pure wreslter would never beat a jiu jitsu fighter. He'd have to know some kind of submission in order to win.

The Gracie Hunter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gibyO...eature=related

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Originally Posted by Aikijiujitsu

The Gracie Hunter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gibyObwmYR4&feature=related

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He's a Catch Wrestler though, Saku doesn't count hahah.
Take Genki Sudo for example he was a wrestler and he tears people apart.
But only cause he knows submissions. Fact is, that wrestling doesn't teach you the guard 1/2 guard or anything like that.
But when you face Jiu Jitsu and you're in those positions you're pretty much fucked.

The "Pure" Wrestling of greats such as Dan Gable traces back to the Catch Wrestling of Farmer Burns, Ed Lewis, Ad Santel, and Frank Gotch. I suggest you check out http://www.wrestlingtree.com/

When Gracie started tapping dudes out in ufc it really brought so much attention to bjj im surprised it didnt happen with catch wrestling after Sak was smashing everybody.

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Originally Posted by JeffRace727

Wrestling is good, but a pure wreslter would never beat a jiu jitsu fighter. He'd have to know some kind of submission in order to win.

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not completely, I started as a pure wrestler and beat some good jj players in my first year.

Last night i brought a guy from class with me to JJ..he really liked it..and he is a great wrestler for my HS..he kicked my butt with all the pining though..

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Originally Posted by Scott Yockel

not completely, I started as a pure wrestler and beat some good jj players in my first year.

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True, a lot of wrestlers just turn "illegal moves" into their submissions.

high school wrestling didn't allow submissions but we did learn cranks and I have put a guy or two to sleep...but that was 25 years ago...now they have outlawed everything.

Your friend should frankly...do both! Seriously. The wrestling instruction he gets in high school will be absolutely free and he will compete all the time. He will learn excellent balance and body movement.

Do BJJ as well. The will frankly work right off of each other. Wrestling has excellent takedowns and escapes. If you are grappling with a BJJ guy he may not have enough game to deal with your escapes.

My coach has 6 years of wrestling and 10 years of BJJ and he calls the spot Riverside Submission because he incorporates both. I think they are a perfect marriage honestly.

How old is the guy/ Is he still in school/ My son does both, wrestling in season and jiu jitsu out. He wanted to stop wrestling (he is in 8th grade and just likes jiu jitsu better) so I had him talk to my coach, bill keeling. Bill told him "why stop, use wrestling to get good at takedowns, and what about all these sparring partners you get in wrestling, and its free" So my son went back to wrestling this year. The first technique he learned this year was the twister and a modified crotch ripper. Now he is loving it. The other plus is wrestlings amazing conditioning. I guess i'm just trying to say that they compliment one another very well, so why pick one or the other? Plus I believe that position is always more important than submission, in both wrestling and jiu jitsu. When we start talking 10th planet jiu jitsu they fit together even better, so I say, if one can, one should do both!

Yeah..i taught him some basic submissions..He Loved hit.. he was able to hit armbars..and kimuras..and some RNC and arm triangles.=)

and he going to teach me wrestling..i dont have time to join my HS team..he said he will also show me more takedowns=)

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Originally Posted by mike

How old is the guy/ Is he still in school/ My son does both, wrestling in season and jiu jitsu out. He wanted to stop wrestling (he is in 8th grade and just likes jiu jitsu better) so I had him talk to my coach, bill keeling. Bill told him "why stop, use wrestling to get good at takedowns, and what about all these sparring partners you get in wrestling, and its free" So my son went back to wrestling this year. The first technique he learned this year was the twister and a modified crotch ripper. Now he is loving it. The other plus is wrestlings amazing conditioning. I guess i'm just trying to say that they compliment one another very well, so why pick one or the other? Plus I believe that position is always more important than submission, in both wrestling and jiu jitsu. When we start talking 10th planet jiu jitsu they fit together even better, so I say, if one can, one should do both!

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He is like 5ft8 150..he is 17.

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Originally Posted by Shellby

He is like 5ft8 150..he is 17.

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I really think he shoulld do both then, if he can, if he is still in HS. Even if he is out of school I would reccomend he do both if possible, hes young and probably can handle both, physically that is. Working together is great, after all at the end of the day thats what makes one good, their training partners. You are being smart working with him, letting him teach you takedowns, stick together and you will go far together.

Yeah he is JR at my school..
Its nice because he can drive..lol
im only a 15yr old sophmore=)

he is ripped for a 17yr old.

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Originally Posted by RaiderFunk

high school wrestling didn't allow submissions but we did learn cranks and I have put a guy or two to sleep...but that was 25 years ago...now they have outlawed everything.

Your friend should frankly...do both! Seriously. The wrestling instruction he gets in high school will be absolutely free and he will compete all the time. He will learn excellent balance and body movement.

Do BJJ as well. The will frankly work right off of each other. Wrestling has excellent takedowns and escapes. If you are grappling with a BJJ guy he may not have enough game to deal with your escapes.

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^^^this says it all

Its all grappling. To focus on one is subdividing. Incorporate all effective techs regardless of origin. Especially since they are now so readily available. They grew into distinct and separate categories through isolation. In this day and age, this is just not the case. Plus you gotta get to the ground somehow and bein on top is good. Wrestling is already a fundamental part of sub grappling just without focus on subs. Don't put limitations on your growth.

I learned this the hard way.

not sure he's really big on jiu-jitsu, he refers to it as guys just rolling around in PJ's

but i've told him, you laugh all you want just try to remember what happend after you wake up. wrestling is very good but for your age, in a street fight you wont survive against a submission artist.

he's a good kid, 16 160lbs 5'7"

but his biggest fault is he doesnt really have any control.
he cant even take losing a board game or checkers without throwing a fit.

before he tried out for wrestling, I went light with him and told him, "remember, control your breathing, work smarter not harder." he gassed out within 45 seconds because he tried to go macho man balls to the wall isntead of pacing himself.

A veteran wrestler indeed will give a BJJ/JJ veteran a run for his money, but i think the BJJ/JJ practitioner may come out on top in the end due to constant repetition on submissions.

guess in my head, in theory: if you wrestle for 8 years only playing by traditional rules of pin and points and rarely if ever try submissions, a BJJ/JJ veteran with the same amount of time training, but learning position and submission will/ may be more likely to come out on top, because even if the wrestler stays on top in guard, the JJ practioner has many more options.

Also, given his age, self defence wise i think JJ may benefit him some more.
still though, definately gonna try and work with him on take downs and techniques.

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Originally Posted by Shannon

Hey guys, I've got a friend that wants to start grappling and I offered him to look into Brazilian Jiu-jitsu/ jiu-jitsu vs High school wrestling.

he has a bit of an ego and doesnt think highly of "guy rolling around in pajama's"

I told him, dont get me wrong, wrestling is good and can be effective but for a street fight BJJ/JJ will more than likely beat out High School wrestling. wrestling is a very strong and dominant foundation, however in a highschool setting, your mostly working for position and points.

wrestling is position, jiu jitsu is submission.

wrestling is extremely fun and effective but I would lean to jiu jitsu every time.
Its his choice but I told him to look into jiu jitsu aswell for a grappling art.

any advice, input, opinions etc?

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A street fight beeing a good example ? :P A good wrestler that can pound your face.. dont we see alot of bjj fail against that in mma ? ofc also see alot of good bjj win also. you know like the brazillian with the roided wrestler on top for 5 rounds winning with a triangle and so on.

Still if he can he should train both.
You get a really good base from wrestling and alot of good moves and great control

The biggest difference between alot of BJJ guys and wrestlers, with regard to wrestlers doing "well" early, is they simply have more mat time than other BJJ beginners (guys with less than 4 years in). The other difference is, the wrestlers tend to, on average, be much better athletes.

However, an experienced BJJ guy, who is the athletic match of his former wrestling dance partner, tends to mop the mat with said wrestler. I think alot of these sorts of things talking about how great wrestling does against BJJ, sort of ignore in many cases the wrestler has more mat time than the new BJJ guy, and esp with regard to Collegiate wrestlers there is a large gap in raw athletic ability as well.

Even out the physical parameters and it tends to be much more on the BJJ side. Regarding MMA, all the wrestlers doing well these days have cross trained ALOT of BJJ, so calling them wrestlers.....is sort of misleading.

if it is for a self defense purpose i would recommend judo because it is good for getting top position and quick submissions against people that are dressed in jackets and shirts if you live somewhere hot where most people ware shorts and t's go with jujitsu.

tell him to join a 10th planet school? or do submission wrestling? it sounds like he just doesnt like the gi lol theres no problem with that

Train both they will both enhance your game in different areas. I wrestled my whole life and didn't start jits until after high school, and my wrestling definately gave me an edge over the guys with no wrestling experience.

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Originally Posted by FiErCe_oNi

tell him to join a 10th planet school? or do submission wrestling? it sounds like he just doesnt like the gi lol theres no problem with that

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lol he kinda thinks jiu jitsu is cheap cause its not a real fight.

lol if a guy can kick your ass without throwing a punch, he can fight.

lol thats like losing a race and sayin "thats not fair, I wasnt ready yet"

again, he's at that stage where he thinks he knows everything, I told him not to get so big headed cause he doesnt even kow anything yet. didnt exactly like it when he got an attitude about it and i told him i've got 9 and 10 year olds that could teach him take downs and submissions.

ok heres an idea, challenge him to a fight and beat him without throwing any strikes. no better way to prove your point to a stubborn person. they want proof, give them proof.

I have a better idea, do the entire BJJ/10th planet world a favor, dont get the dude anywhere near a class. He has all the tell tale signs of douchebag spazz machine. Just a train wreck waiting to happen.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

Its all grappling. To focus on one is subdividing. Incorporate all effective techs regardless of origin. Especially since they are now so readily available. They grew into distinct and separate categories through isolation. In this day and age, this is just not the case. Plus you gotta get to the ground somehow and bein on top is good. Wrestling is already a fundamental part of sub grappling just without focus on subs. Don't put limitations on your growth.

I learned this the hard way.

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Well stated!!

lol i know, though i hate to say it, my better instinct tells me he may not last long in wrestling as it is because of his short temper, and bad sportsmanship. if he cant take losing a board game (even on family game nights, i've seen) he will not do well as a grappler when someone beats him or dominates him. as soon as they start to dominate he's gonna get frustrated, forget to breath and practicaly give the match away. but who knows.

i've offered him a fight at my BJJ school where i train, he hasnt shown once nor mentioned it since.

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Originally Posted by stlnl

I have a better idea, do the entire BJJ/10th planet world a favor, dont get the dude anywhere near a class. He has all the tell tale signs of douchebag spazz machine. Just a train wreck waiting to happen.

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yeah that idea was at the beck of my mind to, probably the better option...

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Originally Posted by Shannon

lol i know, though i hate to say it, my better instinct tells me he may not last long in wrestling as it is because of his short temper, and bad sportsmanship. if he cant take losing a board game (even on family game nights, i've seen) he will not do well as a grappler when someone beats him or dominates him. as soon as they start to dominate he's gonna get frustrated, forget to breath and practicaly give the match away. but who knows.

i've offered him a fight at my BJJ school where i train, he hasnt shown once nor mentioned it since.

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it seems pretty obvious to me that your friend is just talk, the sort of guy that talks shit about how he can bash people up while the last thing he wants to do is get into a fight

lol its gotten kinda to the point where if he shows his ego i just say, submission over position.
kinda cuts into him after the whole talk of, "you dont even know wtf your doin yet, sure you get a position, then what? if im on my back, im fine with that, im comfortable from various positions."