Sparring time

This question have been on my mind for quite sometime now. Being an avid competitor, I always wonder if Cora is getting the adequate sparring time. For a few months now I've been tracking the actual sparring time she get during each class. As of late its been very disappointing. Out of an hour and half of gym time, she is only getting 5 minutes of actual sparring time. I know conditioning and drilling is important, but I also believe that there has to be a better balance than just 5 minutes. Sure there are some positional sparring here and there, but I think with lack of full sparring, she won't be able to develop other aspect of her game, like the entry. Also isn't live sparring is conditioning in itself? So to get her more sparring time, I go and find others who are willing to roll with her, put her in outside activities like Kids in Kimonos. But even that is just once a month. I believe that if she doesn't get the adequate mat time to learn and work out her game, she won't hit that next level. I'm not sure if other parents feel the same way as I do, but again none of the other kids are competing the way she is. So a 5 minute roll is good enough for them, but not for me. Also with yall posting pictures on FB looking all nice and sweaty, it tells me at each gym session, you guys roll a lot to break out sweat like that. Needless to say, Cora hasn't sweat in months. I even been cutting down her gym days from 5 days to just 3 because I want to train her at home as doesn't get much of sparring at the gym anyways. Yes it has gotten to that point. Every time I take her to the gym, I PRAY that she will get the needed sparring time, but only left disappointed. I spoke to her coach about it and he said he will change things up after Pan, but its just the same. Maybe I've seen how the kids in Cali train and especially hanging out at HQ and see how much rolling is going on there. That probably the cause of me opening my eyes more. So anyways, my question is, how much sparring time is the norm for your gym? Thank you Bruce

5 minutes of rolling is no where near enough for competitors.
We do at least 30 mins a night then I let guys stay late and roll as long as they can.

See that is what I've been hearing also from guys in other gym. She is a competitor who competes at least once a month. So she needs to train differently, especially if she is to compete against the top level kids in cali.

My first gym you were lucky to roll at all! There would be two, 5-6 minute rounds and the instructor chose who rolled and with whom. It was terrible.

Now at 10th planet Chicago, we roll 40+ minutes usually and late night can go for over an hour. It's important to get a lot of live back to back rolls to built endurance for competition. I know girls who threw up inbetween matches at a sub only comp because they weren't used to going so hard for that long.

Our minimum is 5x8 minute rounds every practice. But we usually do 6-7 a night. Sparring is as important as drilling in my opinion.

Since sparring directly translates to competing. . . 5 minutes does not seem adequate for an active competitor.

Thanks guys for your feed back. Since I've already brought this issue up with her coach one time already, I'm reluctant to bring it up again because I fear they will come back at me with "what do you know? you aren't even a white belt" or something along that line. So for now I just sit and pray that they will do something about it. But between you and I, I am very frustrated with the situation. But also don't want to step on anyone's toe. You know??

Even kids should roll at least 20 minutes. Competitors or not. How can you learn without live practice. And Bruce, everyone is a white belt. So you are too. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Amber Kamischke

I know girls who threw up inbetween matches at a sub only comp because they weren't used to going so hard for that long.

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Wow. That's wild.

Clearly 5 minutes is not enough..have you thought about scoping out some adult classes and if they have some small adult females to maybe try to get Cora in an adult class? kids classes typically roll lots less than adult classes (lots of games, drilling and positional stuffs. Most kids are not "competitors". Oh they do tournaments...don't get me wrong, but they aren't competitors.. Cora is a real competitor, she needs something other than recreational kid-Jitsu. No offense to their kids program, I'm sure is great. Cora is outgrowing the kids classes very quickly, and I don't mean her size or age..

I concur. 5 minutes is NOTHING, 45 minutes non stop is what I shoot for every class. Sometimes drilling runs into this, but we never roll for less than 30 min. Some of use roll after to make up that 15 or extend it to 60 min. Rolling and drilling is cardio. Easy to do regular cardio on your own time. Hard to get a decent variety of people to roll with on your own time. Sometimes I even skip a technique that I was planning on covering if we are running behind, just save it for next week. Not willing to sacrifce drilling and rolling just learn something new.

45min-1hr each night.

obviously, technique class is instrumental to learning jiu jitsu, but how the hell does the instructor of that school expect people to instill those techniques unless you're rolling?

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Originally Posted by Scott Ray

Clearly 5 minutes is not enough..have you thought about scoping out some adult classes and if they have some small adult females to maybe try to get Cora in an adult class? kids classes typically roll lots less than adult classes (lots of games, drilling and positional stuffs. Most kids are not "competitors". Oh they do tournaments...don't get me wrong, but they aren't competitors.. Cora is a real competitor, she needs something other than recreational kid-Jitsu. No offense to their kids program, I'm sure is great. Cora is outgrowing the kids classes very quickly, and I don't mean her size or age..

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Scott, with school and homework, its tough. She gets home at around 3:45pm, eat and do homework at the same time. When she finish homework, we go in the garage and do our warm ups and drill on a couple of techniques until 5:45pm where we pack up and hurry to the gym as it starts at 6pm. From 6-7pm is the regular class and then she spend another 30 minutes for black belt club (for the more advance students). Adult class starts at 7pm and doesn't end till late around 9 pm. She is so smaller than the adult women so I don't want her to take away their sparring time. But really, it isn't even going to work out if she attend the adult class, she has to come home, eat dinner and finish up some of her homework. Just not enough time during the day for everything. That is why I want her to have at least 20-30 minutes of good rolling time during her gym time which that is far from what she is getting right now. :(

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Originally Posted by Greg W

I concur. 5 minutes is NOTHING, 45 minutes non stop is what I shoot for every class. Sometimes drilling runs into this, but we never roll for less than 30 min. Some of use roll after to make up that 15 or extend it to 60 min. Rolling and drilling is cardio. Easy to do regular cardio on your own time. Hard to get a decent variety of people to roll with on your own time. Sometimes I even skip a technique that I was planning on covering if we are running behind, just save it for next week. Not willing to sacrifce drilling and rolling just learn something new.

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My take on this is the same as you. I do believe in rolling and drilling is cardio, but they are over doing the cardio part which takes over 70% of the time. For kids competition, its only 3-4 minutes, how much cardio do they need?? We been working on new things and its slowly coming out in her sparring (when she get to spar). I used to have many footage of her sparring so that we can go and study tape, but now I have none. During her spring break last week, I took her to one of our affiliate school and she get to train with those guys. She got more than 2 hours of constant sparring and man she was so happy and pulled off many new techniques that are on the warm ups. I just wish we get more of that on a regular base, it doesn't have to be 2 hours just enough.

Bruce, every time you say something about the gym, I can't help but to think you should try someplace else. If they don't want to try and accomodate your wishes that is up to them, it is up to you to try somewhere else if you want. How many other gyms in Houston have you been to recently? You never know. If you have tried every other place and come back to Team Tooke then that is the best place for you and you just have to make the best of it.

I agree with greg. Loyalty is important, and Coras game is a product of that loyalty and her passion for more jiu jitsu. As a former kids class instructor, there are alot of on the mat and of the mat politics to consider when running a school. I remember posting something similar to this when I first got my blue and my fellow 10pjjmates were encouraging to look for a new team. The truth of the matter is if your daughters peers don't have the same goals or ambitions as her, it's unrealistic to compare, measure up, or even take into any form of consideration. It's important to find a training environment that suites your logistics and production needs. I always pushed for more live pass guard, more live drilling, more than 15-20 min of sparring, but a childs ego is a sensitive thing, and not all schools wanna rise to the challenge of building martial artists instead of an ayso soccer team with gis on. It's a tough thing, but u gotta assess whats important to your needs and what you are willing to accomidate. the school I train at is literally 80 miles away from where I live, so to get the training I need to suite my production I rent a room with team mates away from my kids and family and work out on the opposite side of the island for half the week. I'll go back home on the weekends, and my parents, gf, and I will take turns watching the kids on our days off. It was a difficult choice to make, especially as the kids instructor at my former school, but to get the results I needed out of training, I needed to do it. My game has shot up tremendously and my former teammates now appreciate alot more the value of having honest trains, and an environment of common interest. When I go home to Kona they often will train privately as a group on my mats at my house. It was tough to do but totally worth it. I looked cora up on the medals podium, check out what the aoj kids are doing at their school. Some of them are home schooled and jj is there main focus. You gotta ask yourself honestly what you and your daughters priorities are. Jiu Jitsu and martial arts are a lifestyle, to a degree that maybe be cultish, that mindset is not an in the gym thing, it's a life approach thing, as a child competitive martial artist, I wish my parents couldve seen the realism in living through your passions and not the status quo.

I hear what you are saying bro. I'm pretty content with everything else here. We made many good friends. Cora go and sleep over at her teammate house. We have build good relationship here. The only issue is the sparring time. Cora is very rounded, she is a straight A student and enjoy many other outside activities. She goes to a regular school, with limited time for jiu jitsu so that is why when its time for jiu jitsu, we want to maximize that opportunity. I know she has the talent to compete with any kids at any level, if she get the proper sparring time. I spoke to many other high level kids parents and they told me their kids are getting anywhere from 30 min to an hour of good hard rolling each day. Cora has come far into the sport already, lets give her the proper mat time to help get her to the next level. Sparring with me at home isnt cutting it.

Are there any other kids who are big into competing? If the instructor is cool with it, maybe ask if Cora and whoever else wants to if they can get a few more rounds of sparring in after there class, as long as they aren't disrupting the following class. Or if thats not an option that works for everyone, it may just be that Cora has outgrown that program.

As a student and competitor Cora deserves a class environment that sufficiently challenges her and as a paying customer you deserve to have your valid requests being addressed and taken into consideration, not just empty promises of "it will change later." If the instructors aren't going to put more of an emphasis on rolling and competition, and that is what you AND Cora are looking for in a school at this point, then there is your answer: this isn't the school for you two at this point. Nothing to do with loyalties, teams or anything else. The two of you have a need that your current school isn't meeting, for whatever reason, and you have the right as a paying customer to try and find another school that you feel would be a better fit. And your current school can either try to accomodate to keep you or not, from their perspective Cora may not be what they feel they can or should accomodate as a student right now. Its their school to run as they please.

Emailed her coach a thorough message today. Got very positive feedback. No hard feeling on either side. Look like things will work out. Happy camper now...:)

Okay..I just gotta put my two cents in......If you put Cora in with the adults you aren't taking away anything from them. We have a young man that is 13 now. He's been with us two years. He never liked the kids class too much..he's a mini grown up. He was like 65lbs when he first started with us...he's about 90 now. I can roll decently hard with him now with out thinking too much about it, but he has taken class and sparred with the rest of the adults, not just me or the smaller people, for two years now. He has never been thought of as a burden. Even when he was really small, we would defend and let him work.

Bruce, take her from 7-8:30pm. That way she gets 30 minutes of sparring. Do the homework during her normal class time and eat a light dinner before, save some leftovers for a snack afterward, or buy some Cliff bars. You could even do like two days kids class, two days adults. Just my input.

How much does she weigh now?

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Originally Posted by Cora Sek

Emailed her coach a thorough message today. Got very positive feedback. No hard feeling on either side. Look like things will work out. Happy camper now...:)

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Communication with he coach should have been your first action. He's there to help his students reach their goals, but he has t hear from you to be able to help. Keep the communication lines open and healthy in any relationship if you want the relationship to flourish.