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Is something I've heard since the first day I trained 10th Planet. Ironically Royler (Master of Gracie Jiu Jujitsu basics and fundamentals) was controlled and flustered and had no answer by the most basic on 10th Planet skills sets.
Ohhhh today we just sit back and smile. Tomorrow we do it all over again.
I just posted that it's funny how a lot of haters talk shit about how horrible it is to use lockdown and it's ineffective / basicly a stall position yet royler couldn't stop the same sweep from lockdown 4 times. Hmmmmm
exactly.
This whole "no fundamentals" complaint started bc dudes watched 10p techniques on the internet and books instead of going to an actual school, 10p or otherwise. Then they talk shit to their friends that actually train and get smashed while doing lockdown incorrectly and no clue how to properly implement rubber guard.
A lot of haters tend to do 10th planet techniques incorrectly , specially the rubber guard. I think that's why they hate so much because when they do it, it is ineffective since they are skipping steps / missing key points.
this!!! ^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by adlai
Amen. Before I joined a hotbox I had no clue how complex and subtle things are in 10p. And what Herzog said about fundamental 10P techs, spot on. Lockdown is my home base. It has seriously accelerated my jiu jitsu learning. Having the ability to get to top position in a controlled manner, and then being able to pass easily off of the set ups from the sweeps, has made me able to hold my own against higher ranking opponents. It's such a confidence booster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlai
people are blind. I got the same sweep on a purple the otherday, in a gi, and when i got side control he says "ok you got the sweep, what are you gonna do now" wtf, everyone assumes all we got is rubbergaurd, they assume we know nothing else. when in reality we do thier shit plus our shit plus zog shit. so i tapped him with an mmt style arm triangle lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Nice :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mikel
On another message board I go to, everyone shits all over 10th planet. They're constantly shitting on lockdown, rubber guard, and you name it when it comes to 10th planet. So gratifying to see that Eddie's lockdown was untouchable and showed how effective it truly is. Was so stoked as it is trained 10th planet, and now I'm just that much more excited to train in a system that is innovative and ahead of the curve from the competition.
Spot on assessment. Speaking from experience, it is difficult to learn and correctly implement any part of the 10th Planet system without guidance. The people who are successful are the ones who make the effort to visit a moon, a hotbox or seminars. There is nothing like rolling with a high level 10th Planet Soldier to inspire you or to simply make you a believer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlai
Im a 10th Planet purebreed and thats all I get when I tell people Im a ronin. "10th Planet isnt effective, 10th Planet is just a bunch of fancy moves with stupid names" Well Eddie proved it works!!!! Hopefully now everyone in my town will now know its effectiveness and stop shutting down the idea of using 10th Planet! Its hard being the only person in a 27k populated town who Eats ,Sleeps, and Breathes 10P!!!!
I hear the term "tricks" a lot. That 10P is basically an abundance of these "tricks". Well these "tricks" are part of a rather complex system that chain together techniques in a cohesive manner that allow you to flow from one to the next without much guess work once mastered. So, if that is all "tricks" I'll take it.
Also, I take issue with broad statement about fundamentals. I think that is subjective, as systems evolve so do the fundamentals so, I would expect those to change over time based on system progression.
An open mind willing to learn and adapt will always beat a closed mind living in the past and afraid of change. That's why I love 10th planet
Hopefully this will once and for all shut up the haters who like to crap all over the Lockdown.
Anyone who refuses to accept 10th Planet as legit is just another in line to get dominated by someone with an open mind.
Realistically, someone who incorporates traditional BJJ with 10th Planet, should kill people who only stick to one or the other.
The debate should be over. Royler being 48 has little to do with his inability to deal with a super basic electric chair. On forums everywhere you have hundreds of guys talking about how they easily stuff electric chairs. It's so easy to stop. And yet, Royler couldn't deal with it. That has nothing to do with age. It has nothing to do with weight. It has everything to do with the fact that it works. 10th planet basics mixed with regular basics. Shoot man, I see guys who don't even know how to maintain posture properly and they have the nerve to say we don't have basics? LOL.
Weight wasn't an issue they was 3lbs difference. Eddie was 161, Royler was 159.
I know you stay away from sherdog, but the excuses are laughable. Age. Weight. Gi pants (that Royler insisted on). And when all else fails, they bring up Leo Vieira. LOL. But they won't address the fact that Eddie dominated with one of the most basic 10th Planet material. Damn it feels good to be a 10thster. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
If I could get a dollar for every time someone tell me to stop teaching Cora all these "fancy" 10thplanet stuff and teach her the "fundamental/basic" stuff, I would be able to pay my light bills. LOL Well to me, its not fancy stuff, its actually basic when you know what you are doing. Cora can run throw most paths in the rubber guard blind folded, that to me is basic.
looooooooooolQuote:
Originally Posted by Wancarlos
for someone that does not go to a 10p school and only has a way of learning 10p from this site, books, and dvds, and maybe drive two hours to the closest school that happens to be in a whole other country, i am confused by the whole 10p doesn't do basic fundamentals argument. that's all i learn is basic fundamentals, and when i watch other people from 10p schools on video rolling, they are just doing basic fundamentals as well, and if they have taken all of the proper steps to get to rubber guard, or other positions, they use that avenue, but if they are not able to secure those things, they fall back on basic fundamental jiu jitsu. if you don't have a base in jiu jitsu, you won't have a base in any type of jiu jitsu since it all pretty much starts from the same place as far as i can tell. when i look at what it takes to secure rubber guard and work other submissions from there, it looks like a simpler way of setting up for a triange/armbar/omoplata submission chain, and last i checked, that is basic jiu jitsu fundamentals.
people that are saying that 10p is not using basic fundamentals to secure submissions are clearly ignorant and are choosing to be so.
i could be wrong in how i see the rubber guard working, but to me it looks like it is simply an ultra flexible way of setting up for the "trinity" chain, or ultimately setting up an omoplata. and that is one of the most basic fundamentals you are taught in jiu jitsu next to shrimping and umpas.
That was my struggle early on too, once I had time to really understand the concept of base and moving ur body then lockdown and some of the truck transitions began to make sense. When Mastering the Twister dvd came out that unlocked alot for me, and then going to the 10th pjj East Coast camp was huge too to allow me to add Russian Cowboy (and open up my mind more on leg attacks).Quote:
This whole "no fundamentals" complaint started bc dudes watched 10p techniques on the internet and books instead of going to an actual school, 10p or otherwise. Then they talk shit to their friends that actually train and get smashed while doing lockdown incorrectly and no clue how to properly implement rubber guard.
Today on JRE, Eddie mentioned that one motivation for doing the Royler match was to give his supporters a little more firepower against the endless forum hate from gi guys. That made me go back and look at some of the stuff guys used to say to me all the time on the UG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel D.
In just one or two threads from 2009, one well known Los Angeles area black belt had all of the following to say about no-gi only training:
"What I can tell you, without a doubt in my mind, is that 99% of the guys Ive rolled with who come from no gi backgrounds...are NOTHING on the ground compared to decent purple belts who put their time in with the gi. It's night and day, and Ive rolled with tons from both sides of the debate over the years."
"This is a typically American thing you are doing, by the way.
Something comes here and before we even have our feet wet in it (a matter of less than 20 years since BJJ was even known by anymore than a handful of people here), we are already figuring out how we think it should be done better. It's a stupid arrogance.
Good luck with your Luta Livre."
"I think that going after heel hooks is probably a smart strategy for a no gi only player. They usually aren't great at position, which was kind of my point, so things like heel hooks and guillotines are perfect strategy for them."
"There ate some good no gi guys (who never trained in the gi), but I stand by
my claim that 99% of the are horrible compared to their gi trained counterparts."
"Generally speaking, they leave a lot of openings for passing, sweeping, and submissions...their best hope really is to catch a submission in a scramble."
I redacted a bunch of extra text in the above quotes for brevity, but you get the idea. I wonder if he would still spout the same close minded nonsense today.
professional lurker lurking here congrats to Eddie for what was a totally dominate performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
after watching the the event for the third time or so i is clear to see royler got stuck with that knee slice but failed to change his path as Eddie always states when teaching which is ironic, you hit a road block try something else so on and so forth.
I was thinking to myself why didn’t royler just Capoeira Pass eddies Quarter guard and kick out of it and try and gain side control i mean if they did any home work at all they would of seen Eddie don’t like the Capoeira Pass done to him if they get the twister side. royler just looked lost especially when he was in that 100%.
congrats all 10p :cool::cool:
i'm on another forum where there are dudes that are so anti-10th planet it's fucking insane. and their arguments as to why 10th planet sucks are ridiculous. here's what some dude who is a brown belt had to say:
"For the first six minutes, yeah. He was clinging to Royler's foot for dear life to stop him from progressing without initiating any attack of his own, because he was not in position to. At this point you've started another white belt argument that makes you look stupid without knowing it again.
Stalling means stopping the action. That can be a good thing, especially when someone is passing your guard, or a bad thing, like if you are running out the clock. Do you know what the origin of the lock down is? It comes from Judo, because when Judokas hit the mat, if they can halt action, they get stood up. The torque the lock down puts on the leg is good, tangling someone up so they can't progress is good. The problem is that having your inside leg weaved and comitted to the figure four in this way prevents you from retracting it for base.
Essentially, if you can't electric chair someone, you've gotten yourself stuck on your hip. Because of the cross face and sprawl, the electric chair is just a less effective deep half guard, and no serious competitor is tapping in a serious tournament to the splits, "testing the submission" shouldn't even be a phrase. A submission either taps them or damages them. The dog fight position he teaches is bad jiu jitsu. Go test that position with a wrestler and see if you can run him down with a body lock, if you are even able to "whip up" (shitty way to base, but necessary from the lock down since your leg is committed). See if you can finish the single there. You can't because Bravo teaches you to come up with your arm around their waist and no pressure in their quad, and no way to control the trapped leg and move forward at the same time. The biggest problem with the lock down is it makes you do ONE thing, so if it doesn't work in one shot, you are fucked, as opposed to Lucas Leite's style of half guard which accomplishes everything good about the lock down by torquing the leg, but allows you to move your hips independently."
i know i shouldn't let thick-headedness like this piss me off, but i just cannot understand how some people are so closed mind that they can truly say to themselves, after watching metamoris, "yeah, that lockdown bullshit fucking sucks."
LOL. I love how guys become lockdown experts by observation. Cmon b, you gotta at least try it! There are so many damn options from LD. This guy clearly has no clue what he's talking about.
or this argument is used a lot:
"there are no high level 10thpjj competitors or world champions to prove that these techniques works."
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We just have different fundamentals; my first two weeks in jiujitsu were spent on free New York to gogo, and the next two weeks were lockdown, whipup, electric chair. I can do those things in my sleep (and I have, much to the annoyance of my wife). I have to admit, though, that I was pretty embarrassed when I was a purple belt and had no idea how to hit an armbar from the guard.
Goddamn This guy again.
So im a ronin i guess. And have been for some years now. Just not been active on here before. My big problem is my flexibilety is shit so i cant work RG so much as i want. Two years ago i discoverd The LD and my game change in such Way that suddenly i could control bigger and more advance grapplers then my selfe. Now LD is my safezone no matter size or belt when i get them in LD then i have control. Gi, nogi dont matter LD works anyway.
Jiu jitsu basics and fundamentals lack 10th planet techniques :-)
LOL. well played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo Lagrange
Name one Jiu Jitsu association that has a warm up curriculum like ours. 10th Planet is way heavier on basics than any other association. Unless you have 30 Jiu Jitsu flows consisting of chained crucial nogi basics, memorized, and on an unwavering rotation, it is impossible to match our numbers/reps.
This!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo