Fully locked up vice grip, leg collected, ready to fall to the side, but the guy has a strong neck--any way to break this defense?
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Fully locked up vice grip, leg collected, ready to fall to the side, but the guy has a strong neck--any way to break this defense?
I've never had this experience but often if I miss the jnt, I can often times switch to the darce and vice versa.
IDK but I'm a path of least resistance guy. If a guy has an unchokable/crankable neck, I'd just use the JNT to move into mount and work something else.
If you can't fall to the side then you probably don't have the vice locked down on his head enough and aren't actually fully locked in or your angle is off. Or maybe both. My most successful neckties are ones that I catch the vice incredibly deep as soon as I throw it, clinching, and never giving him an inch of space back as far as their heads posture. When people become worried about the necktie more than anything else in your game from particular positions, they make it a point to have incredibly strong necks ensuring to eliminate themselves from getting necktied. In such cases, I switch to something else and change up the game and take their mind off of it. When you know how powerful neckties are, you stay the hell away at all costs opening up other stuff. Trying to become ninja at shooting marcelotine if they overextend their neck defending.
Your vice might be flawed somehow. Make sure you have a gable, not an S grip. Also make sure your elbow is at your hip and your firearm runs to where your elbow is near the crown (hair swirl)..
Every move can be successfully defended, of course, and some people have physical advantages which help against particular moves (e.g., my double-jointed elbows bend backwards; good luck with the armbar). That said, my execution of the Jap necktie really improved when I made sure to fully engage my (a) forearm, (b) pectorals, and (c) abdominals. (a) With the choking arm, engage your forearm by doing a 'kawasaki' (revving a motorcycle) type motion. It's what Stallone does in Over the Top, in case you watch shitty old movies. (b) Engage your pecs by squeezing your forearms towards each other. (c) Engage your abs when you pull yourself over the dude's head. So, you aren't just doing a row (pulling with your back) when finishing the move; use your whole body.
This dude goes and takes his jnt. One of the strongest vices I've felt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Philips
So if you can follow any of the above. If he gets a solid attempt of the jnt, you're screwed either way. If he's runnin from your vice grip, something else isopen.
Also, if you can 2on1 the crown and suck in a double under. This is the strongest way I've found to break big necks.
This is a fucking beautiful explanation!! Amir you da Man!:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Amir Allam
I completely forgot about the guilloknot! Thanks for the reminder! Also, I indeed had the vice locked up well; after we got done rolling the guy told me he was very close to tapping. But I was at a physical disadvantage. That I'll describe after Amir's comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Philips
This is making a lot of sense to me. I think I may rely too much on just having the grip itself rather than actually engaging myself as much as I should. I am at a disadvantage at my gym. I'm the shortest and the lightest guy in my gym, by quite a bit all the way around. Not only that but I'm also one of the few white belts there too. Most of them are purples. This particular case was against a very skilled blue belt who is a lot lankier than I am (longer arms, legs, and torso).Quote:
Originally Posted by Amir Allam
Like I said, I had the vice nice and tight, almost to the point of tapping him without falling. When I went to fall to the side though, his neck was very strong and i couldn't pull myself over (at least that's how it felt) without risking losing the hook on the leg. Perhaps if I engage my upper body more, as you say, I can pressure him into giving a little bit, allowing me to fall over.
Could you elebaorate on the 2on1 crown thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby rivers
Wow, in that case you're doing awesomely to get a vice grip and even attempt to finish. I'm guessing that some small adjustments will increase the effectiveness of this move for you. I really gained the insight about the muscular engagement when I had Einstein show me how to finish this move. I was positioning myself and my arms in much the same way, but I noticed that he felt incredibly powerful, and I thought, "He's strong, but he can't be THAT strong at 150 lbs." I then payed close attention to the way he was using his whole body. It is really analogous to throwing 'arm punches' in boxing. And I don't mean to imply that you need to be yoked; I'm just saying that most of the parts of your body make contributions to every technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
I think he is saying your far side overhook that shoots through super deep and grabs the back of neck/head area, and your other hand pushes the top of the head down at the same time then transition to vice grip once the heads posture is broken and kept.
Ah! Ok. Thank you all for these pieces of information. I feel JNTs coming a lot more now.
just dive!! Even if it doesn't feel 100% correct while on top, sometimes you get it messy and cranky, sometime it slides in perfect, sometime his head just pops free. Either way you are collecting research data. If I have the vice grip and a leg I am diving no matter what!
Some of the best Advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amir Allam
Did you just call 'Over the Top' shitty?
My whole bodies an engine. This is the fireplug. Ima light you up.
Another really important detail is when finishing keep his head in the center of your chest. If it's on either side, even a little, the pressure is significantly less. Sometimes I'll even methodically adjust his head but that's done extremely Suttle not letting off pressure