10PJJ and GJJ Rivalry is Stronger Than Ever

Yesterday I replied to a comment on the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy's post of the Gracie Breakdown. Here's what happened:

Girl: "Thank you!! Any chance we could see an escape for Bravo's technique?"
Me: "Pay the $5 a month for MTS on www.10thplanetjj.com and you'll see all our moves, counters, counters to the counters, and the counters to the counters' counters."

You know, just trying to be nice and informative that our whole system is out there for the learning, as well as informing her that our system has a lot more going on than just the straight forward techniques Eddie was able to pull off. We are after all the ones who study how to beat our game the most.

She replies: "Ross thanks but I believe these techniques will be reviewed to some extent within the Master Cycle at some point at www.gracieuniversity.com
I'm in no rush to thoroughly contaminate/confuse my Jiu-Jitsu journey with techniques that might have a questionable use within a street fight. Which is why I entrust them to lead me through it and to it. I was thinking more of a quick 1-2-3 explanation like they did with the Kevin & Keenan fight.
It is irrelevant honestly for me as of now. There are things I need to know and things I want to know. That being said I did experiment with some of the techniques I saw at Metamoris 3 and I am open minded for any style."

Maybe it just pissed me off and I'm over thinking it, but I feel like that, along with other things I've read, has really reinforced the rivalry.

Except, now, 10PJJ has been given an incredible legitimacy.


***Edit: this was not meant to stir the pot! I was trying to couple this little incident with other things I've observed (Royce incident, Eddie/Ralek thing, Gracie Mag Pics, and the Gracie Breakdown) in order to express my views on the situation. I focused on this small incident too much though. I'll do my best to be more thoughtful of my postings from now on.***

lol, she contradicts herself. It goes to show you, folks think the lockdown, RG, etc. are two dimensional gimmicks or recipes. Step 1, step 2, step 3, better hope they never do anything to stop you before you get to step 3.

If it was that, it wouldn't be BJJ.

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Originally Posted by christian sabwa

So what shes telling me is... If i find myself in a half guard position because i was taken down, ko'd, or rocked and i electric chair someone and tear their groin thats not useful in a street fight?

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Deep half is never useful in a street fight. You're better off repping technical stand ups if you're worried about getting caught in bottom half guard on the street.

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So what shes telling me is... If i find myself in a half guard position because i was taken down, ko'd, or rocked and i electric chair someone and tear their groin thats not useful in a street fight?

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As someone who bases some of his game off Gracie Combatives basics, her concern is that somehow the lockdown to the gable grip to the sweep could open her up to strikes (and I think Eddie covered this in his UK MTS episode, he emphasized being sure u hug close don't be lazy about it). She's obv not seeing it from both sides of the fence, but maybe in time she'll come around.

I've made this comparison before but ill make it again, this is like a religious debate with a zealot.

No point in trying to change their ways, debate etc. Just train how you train, and maybe they'll see it first hand and open their mind about it, or they'll reject it, but no point in getting upset.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

Deep half is never useful in a street fight. You're better off repping technical stand ups if you're worried about getting caught in bottom half guard on the street.

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If I'm getting beat on my feet, I'm NOT letting go of my clinched half guard. I'm GOING to get a sweep to the mount/side control.

So you went on to a financial competitors online learning website, posted unsolicited advertisement for a direct competitor and expected love?

Not sure why you are pissed, she is clearly looking for something else on her jiu jitsu journey, no reason to get heated over it, it has no effect on your ability to learn, train and grow.

Didn't expect love. Just didn't expect hate. They were, after all, inquiring to know more about our system. A lot of other people seemed to enjoy my advice and input.

I'm glad they don't want to learn it. More 10th planet voodoo for us. I'm happy if they're legitimately open minded, but other wise don't waste time caring.

Generalization and inflammatory titles are stronger than ever.

maybe I am over reacting now.

What made me happiest about the aftermath of M3 wasn't certain Gracies eating a pr dick it was that it wasn't 10th Planet running around clamoring about how we, and Eddie were the shit. After years of repping while watching people get in internet battles it felt great to see non 10th planet people finally supporting Eddie and picking up the flag. All across the internet it was overwhelmingly former detractors and doubters praising Eddie's performance and character. We did not have to spam the various forums, the vast majority of jiu jitsu did it for us. Nothing speaks louder for ones accomplishments then having others shout praise.

Your original post on the GA comments wasn't bad, I just find issue with anyone attempting to stir the pot unnecessarily. It would be nice if we didn't devolve back to our jiu jitsu cliques. Language stating our rivalry is stronger than ever helps no one, especially when it is clearly not true.

If we want to be mainstream, which is the direction it is heading, we need to let go of language that promotes a perception of persecution. Continue to call BS where you see it, there is a lot of it flying around, but people need to stop getting in petty internet drama.

Royce, metamoris, graciemag, ryron etc have said some bullshit and were called on their bullshit.

One white belt arguing with another white belt online does not equal a wide scale animosity.

Well, I can assure you I meant no disrespect to anyone, and was genuinely just trying to tell her that she is able to learn all the counters to our system she wants to.

Second, this post was merely trying to express my views on how things have been playing out before my eyes, to the fellow 10P people. Perhaps that came off badly. But, I'm not going to stop expressing how I view things.

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Originally Posted by Ross Davidson

Well, I can assure you I meant no disrespect to anyone, and was genuinely just trying to tell her that she is able to learn all the counters to our system she wants to.

Second, this post was merely trying to express my views on how things have been playing out before my eyes, to the fellow 10P people. Perhaps that came off badly. But, I'm not going to stop expressing how I view things.

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You were trolling. Come'on, man, don't treat us like idiots.

Stronger than ever because of what some clueless broad thinks?

No, I really wasn't. I rarely comment on widespread posts anymore. I find arguing on Facebook incredibly draining. I genuinely wanted to tell her about the availability of the system. That's why I didn't respond to her comment that I found disrespectful.

Now I feel I've adequately explained myself with honesty. If you choose to believe otherwise, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to argue on this thread anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ross Davidson

No, I really wasn't. I rarely comment on widespread posts anymore. I find arguing on Facebook incredibly draining. I genuinely wanted to tell her about the availability of the system. That's why I didn't respond to her comment that I found disrespectful.

Now I feel I've adequately explained myself with honesty. If you choose to believe otherwise, that's your prerogative. I'm not going to argue on this thread anymore.

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I think you were being honest, just don't stress yourself with those that are ignorant you extended you hand to offer assistance, she turned away from it, just walk away then.

Don't sweat Joseph, hes a contrarian.

You aren't the first person, nor will you be the last, but the language you used in the title intentionally engenders a rift, regardless of its actual existence. I don't get how we demand to be accepted yet seem to try, at times, just as hard to continue the ill will.

We have the high ground, 10thplanet and Eddie have the public opinion, we may never convert %100 of the people, but a day after M3 there was an abrupt change, support wasn't just in the majority it was a landslide for Eddie. Nobody was left undecided, Eddie won the respect of every able minded person.

I am just another student so my opinion carries no more weight than yours, I just regret coming on to the forum and seeing stuff that belongs on sherdog. I have talked to many people since metamoris about the forum and how they should check it out. I imagine some Gracie university student coming onto the forum to check it out and seeing threads titled to create divisiveness between groups of people whose borders are well on their way to dissolving.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Stronger than ever because of what some clueless broad thinks?

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That was just the icing on the cake for me. I've been stewing over that and kind of focused too much on it. Not just that though: the Gracie Mag pics, the Royce incident, the Ralek/Eddie thing, the Gracie Breakdown trying to discredit effectiveness of 10P techniques in a street fight, and all of the 10P association rallying behind Eddie's performance. It just seems like, from my point of view, that, especially on the Gracie side, that the two factions are still, not necessarily at war, but not on the same page.

Edited.

Don't ask for her phone number

I'm with Kevin on this one..! Less elitism, more love! As for politics, the big guys know what's best-like Herzog.
Captain obvious to the rescue.

Edit; Dropped a story about Barney the dinosaur that wasn't THAT funny and possibly disturbing to children.

Am I the only one who thinks all of this is retarded? Not necessarily the OP specifically, but all the bickering? All the drama? Can't I just learn how to fight people while wearing my pyjamas in peace?

It's like people are out looking for things to be offended by. And I'm not just talking about here, pick a bjj forum, it's all over the place. It's extra deep after this weekend, but it was there before too.

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Originally Posted by AKRhino

It's like people are out looking for things to be offended by. And I'm not just talking about here, pick a bjj forum, it's all over the place. It's extra deep after this weekend, but it was there before too.

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This is pretty much what I meant when I said that the rivalry has been strengthened. Open minds are trying to find out more about 10P, even if just to counter (giving a new, widely accepted legitimacy to 10P), while loyalists are rallying behind their respective camps.

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Don't sweat Joseph, hes a contrarian.

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No I'm not! :P

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Originally Posted by Joachim Hoff

I'm with Kevin on this one..! Less elitism, more love! As for politics, the big guys know what's best-like Herzog.
Captain obvious to the rescue.

Edit; Dropped a story about Barney the dinosaur that wasn't THAT funny and possibly disturbing to children.

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Damn, sounds like you were molested by Barney.

Little red riding hood was molested, but she pulled off lockdown-->Whip down-->Double unders-->Whip up-->Electric chair--->to undefended strikes against Barney's blue golf balls.

(I tried to show one street application of the truck/electric chair.) '-'

I was very high. Reading it; -it was scary and disturbing...
I thought about using the cookie monster instead, but that was even scarier.

I have seen local gyms to our moon posting anything possible trying to discredit Eddie's achievements after Metamoris. It's at an embarrassing point to be honest. They are grasping at straws putting up videos of the Leo Viera match and saying that there are other better bjj role models to follow.
They must feel a real threat of their students leaving. I really think the rivalry is growing whether we want it to or not. All we ever wanted was some respect and legitimacy, since Eddie helped us to gain that it feels as if they need to prove that they are still 'above' us.

Not really my training partner and good friend trains at a Gracie Humaita affiliate and he and his instructor are both 10th Planet friendly. I let my friend barrow the mastering the twister dvd and texted me yesterday about how he can't wait to see try it out. Even the most old school of teachers I have talked to have some really good things to say about Eddie and these are black belts under Royler himself. I think the "rivalry" is fabricated by people that hang out with people that do a shitty job of teaching 10th Planet and instead of putting in work and keep trying to perfect it is easier to cast off as crap. Well, clearly after last Saturday it is mot crap and nor is Eddie and people are starting to see that and that is awesome.