Why you need to train the Gi

This old chestnut...Points made by coach about why you need to train the Gi

''But if you have a look at the current ufc champions, and see how many are black belts with gi! If you want to understand jiu jitsu you must train with the gi! You can take the gi off coming up to a fight, but you can't fully appreciate or excel with jiu jitsu if you don't train in the gi! How many tournaments has Bravo won, or his students? Have they ever won ADCC or the UFC? If training without the gi was better surely they'd clean up in no gi competitions? All the current ADCC champions fight and train in the gi, Brauilo didn't start no gi till he was a brown belt and Roger till he was a black belt!''

''I think you miss understood Rogers statement? (statement of his saying 80% bjj is useless in mma) Training with the gi makes you technically better, you have to work much harder on the correct positioning and technique to escape! You understand the positions better and you don't lose that when you take the gi off! I have seen for so many years that people who don't train with the gi, rely heavily on their psychical attributes (strength and speed) to fight. It's much easier to escape if you're sweating and you're stronger and fitter than the other guy! But if you have the technical knowledge to put behind that, you will be a better fighter. I have watched a lot of so called mma fighters walk through the doors of the gym over the years. Very few of them would stay after being schooled by guy's in our club who all learned in the gi! (I'm referring to no gi class as well as gi)''

''If you make jiu jitsu your art you must learn in the gi to understand it fully! The honest truth is that those who hate the gi, are simply not good enough to compete with it on and make up all this shit. Eddie Bravo is a perfect example he could not make the grade at the top level, so to stand out he started this crap about nogi. But he still trains in the gi himself, as does his pal joe rogan. He has never produced any major champions in either nogi or mma. It's all a spin to make him money and fame, and the reason the gi schools are so successful and have been around so long is because they're better! They all take the gi off to train specifically for adcc or mma for short periods before a fight, then return to the gi to learn the art better. The fact that every major champ in the modern game, of either adcc or mma trains in the gi speaks for itself!''

Thoughts and opinions?

I'm of the opinion if you only want to compete in MMA or NoGi grappling then wearing a gi is pointless, just seems common sense to me. If going to gi classes helps you get in more grappling hours then yeah definitely do it as it will translate to an extent...but saying doing nogi bjj alone wont make as good at nogi bjj than if you have trained gi bjj as well seems odd to me (assuming your getting in the same hours of training). And when talking about defending against punches etc then the gi seems TOTALLY pointless

10th planet is only 10 years old bro. Just wait until the system gets older. Eddie has been training strictly no gi for years and royler had zero answer for Eddie's no gi clinch game. The best guys in the UFC on the ground are wrestlers and they have never trained in the super hero outfit. Spare me the Barao and jose aldo train gi. Where are there submissions then? Anthony Pettis subbed Ben henderson and henderson is a black belt in gi, pettis trains no gi. If you want to do no gi and mma then forget about the gi. Flag football aint the same as tackle

Definitely bro I agree with all your points....Saw this Chris Brennan quote which i think sums it up

How can training with something on that absorbs sweat and slows the game down help you get tighter when you take it off. That is like saying having sex with a condom on helps tighten up the game when you take it off. That is complete shit. It will make it much faster and harder to control once you have it off and you will need to find all new ways to slow it down and control it again. They are two totally different things and I prefer without

hahahhahah thats a good way to think about it. I also prefer without. hahah

About 80% of the first 90% of that 1st post is mostly not true.

Yeah having been a member of these forums for quite a while now I definitely know now that the whole idea that people from 10th planet dont win any tournaments is just ridiculous! Obviously being a gi instructor I doubt he would know all the tournaments that 10th planet have been cleaning up in in the states

This is a tired old argument, and it makes a classic <i>cum hoc ergo propter hoc</i> fallacy. Man, shit sounds so much cooler in latin. Anyway, I'm going to refrain from offering a long-winded rebuttal; instead I'll just offer a counterexample from personal experience. (Also, LoL @ Eddie Bravo using "psychical [sic] attributes (strength and speed) to fight." That cracks me up!)

I won't name names because I don't want to seem like I'm trying to discredit anyone, but I've trained with many of the very best grapplers around today; ADCC champions, IBJJF champions both gi & nogi, and Pan-am champions. In my opinion, none of them have been anywhere near the devastation that is Josh Barnett, who doesn't train in the gi. Honestly, I pick him over any other grappler alive today in a no-gi jiujitsu match with or without points.

I think the gi is great, and any sort of grappling training will make you better at grappling. But I see no reason to believe that it is necessary.

I think you're preaching to the converted buddy! The arguments for Gi are so ludicrously invalid that it surprises me so many people can't see the bigger picture. Zach summed it up for me. The traditionalists have been honing their skills in competition since the 1930's, is it any surprise they have more champions than a system that has only been developing for 10 years? Yet look at the waves we are making! Already. The 10th planet system is so young and only a small handful could say they have it mastered. In 20-30 or 40 years time we'll see a much better reflection. After Eddies win at Metamoris people are beginning to look foolish with their misconceptions.

I train both. I actually have a legitimate reason for doing so. Five days a week I am in a suit for work. I am regularly in a courtroom and I often anger criminal defendants and/or their family. Therefore, I would like to know how to defend myself with what I wear to work! I also run around in shorts and a t-shirt when I am not working so I love training no-gi as well. Saying that . . . they are different as well as compliment each other. However, I don't have a problem if someone doesn't want to train with a gi. It is their own decision.

I think it's a conspiracy. There's a lot if money in the gi market. They pay these guys to take pics in their gi. I mean, their gi always look so clean and belt so unworn. Plus, why is there never footage of them rolling in the gi? There's tons of other footage. Where are the gi videos? I call shenanigans!

my old coach used to say that training in the Gi is like training wheels for grappling and he heard this from his coach Baret Yoshida. Regardless, grappling is grappling, singlet, board shorts or a Gi. Its all fun and do what you have the most fun doing.

I'm just going to drop my two cents in here.

Jiu-jitsu in Brazil is fucking huge. It's like D1 wrestling here in the states. So you literally have thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people who do jiu-jitsu. In such an environment you are going to have some real killers. Guys like Marcelo, Rafa and Gui Mendes, Galvao, Braulio, and Cobrinha are like the cream of the crop; the best of the best. But think of how many dudes who are damn good in their own right who have never won a medal, or a title. There is a fucking ton of them.

But the talent for jiu-jitsu here in the states is a lot smaller. And if your coach is going to make that argument about how many world champions have trained in the gi, then why hasn't he produced any champions? Think of how many jiu-jitsu schools actually produce world beaters and savages.

This is my personal take on the subject. It's not the gi that makes you good or bad; it's your instructor and teammates that make you good. If your jiu-jitsu is legit, then you will have no problem transitioning between the gi and without the gi. Conversely, you don't need the gi to be legit. Just go out and smash fuckers and leave no doubt. Don't talk no mess; let your deeds speak for you.

And on the note of Eddie not going and winning a bunch of tournaments; who is this fucking toolshed to critique anyone's abilities based on their competition record. Shit, someone should call up Greg Jackson and tell him that he should stop teaching people MMA, cause he ain't no champion.

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Originally Posted by Amir Allam

This is a tired old argument, and it makes a classic <i>cum hoc ergo propter hoc</i> fallacy. Man, shit sounds so much cooler in latin. Anyway, I'm going to refrain from offering a long-winded rebuttal; instead I'll just offer a counterexample from personal experience. (Also, LoL @ Eddie Bravo using "psychical [sic] attributes (strength and speed) to fight." That cracks me up!)

I won't name names because I don't want to seem like I'm trying to discredit anyone, but I've trained with many of the very best grapplers around today; ADCC champions, IBJJF champions both gi & nogi, and Pan-am champions. In my opinion, none of them have been anywhere near the devastation that is Josh Barnett, who doesn't train in the gi. Honestly, I pick him over any other grappler alive today in a no-gi jiujitsu match with or without points.

I think the gi is great, and any sort of grappling training will make you better at grappling. But I see no reason to believe that it is necessary.

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Im just trippin right now that the giant wrestler dude knows latin and gave cora that super technical advice on the other thread.
Youre a bad mofo Mr. Allam.

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i seriously don't understand why gi people are so fucking close minded about no-gi. also, that condom quote is great. only sailors use condoms.

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Originally Posted by Ron Benore

I train both. I actually have a legitimate reason for doing so. Five days a week I am in a suit for work. I am regularly in a courtroom and I often anger criminal defendants and/or their family. Therefore, I would like to know how to defend myself with what I wear to work! I also run around in shorts and a t-shirt when I am not working so I love training no-gi as well. Saying that . . . they are different as well as compliment each other. However, I don't have a problem if someone doesn't want to train with a gi. It is their own decision.

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Yeah, I think the truth is somewhere between the "Gi For Life" folks and the "Gi is useless" folks. Marcelo trains 50% gi, 50% no-gi and is developing a style to work for both.

What else do you need to know? That's how I'm charting my course.

On self defense, if you live in Seattle as I do (Greater Seattle Area anyway) and you're whining about sleeves and collars, you need to double-check your thinking next time you put on that hoodie, which you probably did because it's probably raining.

In regards to the gi making your no-gi game better, I could see that argument flying in one place: if you don't use gi-only passes it could make your passing game better like running with ankle weights could make your running stronger.

But it seems to me that training no-gi could improve your guard game in the same way.

We're open minded right? I hold out hope that some day soon, 10p in a gi isn't going to make you unwelcome in the gi class and a weird gi-step-child in the 10p class. :) In my mind, for my situation, it's all about doing 10p Marcelo style. We'll see how it goes.

Hmmm... Tony Ferguson is beast mode in UFC, then vinny mag and George sotoropolis lol just to name a few that fought in the UFC and won

Weidman trains no gi. Mighty Mouse just recently even purchased a gi. Have a hard time believing Hendrick's style has anything to do with the gi. Same with Cain and Jon Jones. Ive been seeing this argument for the past 8 years that I've been training. I'm starting to think it'll never go away.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Alexander

Hmmm... Tony Ferguson is beast mode in UFC, then vinny mag and George sotoropolis lol just to name a few that fought in the UFC and won

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People like to argue Sots and Vinny have a gi background.

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Originally Posted by Daniel D.

i seriously don't understand why gi people are so fucking close minded about no-gi. also, that condom quote is great. only sailors use condoms.

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This goes both ways. Train what you enjoy. People need to give way less of a fuck about what other people are doing.

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Originally Posted by Jacl Dixon

I'm just going to drop my two cents in here.

Jiu-jitsu in Brazil is fucking huge. It's like D1 wrestling here in the states. So you literally have thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people who do jiu-jitsu. In such an environment you are going to have some real killers. Guys like Marcelo, Rafa and Gui Mendes, Galvao, Braulio, and Cobrinha are like the cream of the crop; the best of the best. But think of how many dudes who are damn good in their own right who have never won a medal, or a title. There is a fucking ton of them.

But the talent for jiu-jitsu here in the states is a lot smaller. And if your coach is going to make that argument about how many world champions have trained in the gi, then why hasn't he produced any champions? Think of how many jiu-jitsu schools actually produce world beaters and savages.

This is my personal take on the subject. It's not the gi that makes you good or bad; it's your instructor and teammates that make you good. If your jiu-jitsu is legit, then you will have no problem transitioning between the gi and without the gi. Conversely, you don't need the gi to be legit. Just go out and smash fuckers and leave no doubt. Don't talk no mess; let your deeds speak for you.

And on the note of Eddie not going and winning a bunch of tournaments; who is this fucking toolshed to critique anyone's abilities based on their competition record. Shit, someone should call up Greg Jackson and tell him that he should stop teaching people MMA, cause he ain't no champion.

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Great post Jack

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

Great post Jack

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Sup cuz! How the fuck you been?

I started learning 10PJJ from the MTRG DVDs, and online videos. Then I got into a Relson Gracie gym, and I fell in love with the GI. I still love nogi. I love ALL jiujitsu. I still use 10P techniques while in the GI. Since being IN the Gi, my nogi game has improved a lot! My gym is very open minded, and a few of us will be headed to Beaumont next weekend to train with Eazy Beazy, Eddie Bravo.

Gi vs Nogi, WHO GIVES A FUCK?! Just shut up, slap hands, and roll, goddamnit. :)

It amazes me how everyone forgets Bruce Lees philosophy on martial arts. Take from each what works for you the individual. Gi is good for self defence, but then so is nogi. It's a silly argument if you ask me, to train gi and ignore nogi shows extreme closed mindedness. But on the flip side you could argue the opposite. I guess it's all down to the individual, do what you want to do and forget what others think. Keep rolling :cool:

There is plenty of transfer between the two. The real tragedy is that this debate gets rehashed constantly.

My sentiments exactly! My gi coach is fine with me doing different things. Thankfully 10th Planet is reopening in my location so I can get hands on instruction rather than being a Ronin. Not that there is anything wrong with being a Ronin.