Drilling over rolling

Like most people that train Jiu Jitsu, I have visited and trained at several gyms, at least on the East Coast. I have seen many styles of teaching and learning, I have learned how to learn in all of these settings. One thing stays constant IMO; The MOST successful people in the game drill a lot. They love to roll, as we all do, but drilling is what makes them better. Now for your input. Do you guys think it's responsible for a teacher/professor/coach, that promotes their style of Grappling, to overlook drilling-because rolling is more fun? Would it be beneficial for competitors in the long run?

And lastly, Is it a good representation of the style to do this as an instructor with an affiliate school?

Just your thoughts.

I’ve been to several JJ gyms, and have never seen one completely throw out drilling (except on special occasions, like a day after Thanksgiving roll-a-thon to burn off all the previous days crap). I’m not sure what the golden ratio (drilling time to rolling time) is, but the responsibility seems to rest on both the instructor as well as the student to make the most out of drilling.

I know my instructor will bust you if you lay down when it’s time to drill technique…he will say, “Why did you stop…did you already master this technique after drilling it 5 times? Get some reps in!”

As students, however, we should take our drilling seriously. It’s not a bad idea to drill a lot when away from the gym. Investing in grappling dummy…or at least a heavy bag, seems like a pretty good idea. There are a ton of solo JJ drills on youtube.

Rolling, in my opinion, is also something that should be approached with some thought. After drilling a new technique, it’s a good idea to try and land it live…even if failure is highly probably due to lack of experience with said technique. This is one of the many areas where “checking the ego at the door” comes into play. Approach your rolling sessions with some sense of purpose. What technique are you going to work today? Does you judo side control escape suck? Are you going to let that big wrestler in the gym work you into judo side control so you can get comfortable with your escapes, or will you try and prevent him/her from getting you there at all costs because you hate being held down? Maybe a good approach is the every-other-roll approach. Free roll and do what you want for a roll, then pick something specific for the next roll, then bounce back and forth.

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Originally Posted by Wancarlos

Do you guys think it's responsible for a teacher/professor/coach, that promotes their style of Grappling, to overlook drilling-because rolling is more fun? Would it be beneficial for competitors in the long run?

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I think that's a bit of a loaded question and that makes it complicated. Your use of the word "overlook" makes it a loaded question. It's never ok to overlook anything. It's like asking "Is it ok to drink too much soda?" Of course not. Too much is too much.

I think there needs to be a balance. For me, I can drill something and one month later, I have forgotten it. To really learn a technique, I have to learn the move, put it in my game and get reps rolling. The rolling reps are critical to maintaining the technique in my brain.

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Originally Posted by Wancarlos

And lastly, Is it a good representation of the style to do this as an instructor with an affiliate school?

Just your thoughts.

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Eesh, you wanna name names?

Speaking strictly hypothetically, maintaining the balance between drilling and rolling is probably hard. Different schools, different instructors, they do it differently or we wouldn't be talking about it. I'm a little white belt, once I choose an instructor to teach me, it is less my place to criticize their teaching and more my place to be thinking "is this the best place for me?" There's a difference there. One is personal and humble and one is broad and could be arrogant (for me, speaking as a white belt).

Smells like drama in here. :(

I'd rather do more rolling than what I'm doing. I'm humbly trying to accept that my amazing professors know how to run a class with white belts, blue belts and purple belts better than I do. :)

Generally I get very few drilling reps in because all the moves I want to add into my game we simply aren't taught and so the majority of my reps come whilst rolling, wish I could get more drilling reps in but it's just the way it is for me ATM :/ it's unfortunate and I wish it wasn't the case but I do my best to get the reps in when I roll

There are allot of videos where Eddie talks about this. I think there is even a forum post where he mentions the ratio of rolling at HQ to drilling.

I think the flaw in most styles of instruction for "drilling" is the format. I have trained in allot of places where they instruct, students practice, and then they move on. One of the things I love about the system is that you often drill one part then move to the next part of the sequence (still getting reps of the original tech).
I instruct, have students practice, then I put them on the clock for a round (usually 2-3 min depending. After that I will go over the micro-transitions that I felt needed sharpened overall and we will re-drill (on the clock). **typically we do this to focus on the most difficult tech. in a sequence**
This kind of drilling though can be viewed as tedious but I think it is 100% necessary. I also have different categories of drilling- "normal" (as described above), micro-transitions, progressive drilling, specific position and speed drilling.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

I think that's a bit of a loaded question and that makes it complicated. Your use of the word "overlook" makes it a loaded question. It's never ok to overlook anything. It's like asking "Is it ok to drink too much soda?" Of course not. Too much is too much.

I think there needs to be a balance. For me, I can drill something and one month later, I have forgotten it. To really learn a technique, I have to learn the move, put it in my game and get reps rolling. The rolling reps are critical to maintaining the technique in my brain.



Eesh, you wanna name names?

Speaking strictly hypothetically, maintaining the balance between drilling and rolling is probably hard. Different schools, different instructors, they do it differently or we wouldn't be talking about it. I'm a little white belt, once I choose an instructor to teach me, it is less my place to criticize their teaching and more my place to be thinking "is this the best place for me?" There's a difference there. One is personal and humble and one is broad and could be arrogant (for me, speaking as a white belt).

Smells like drama in here. :(

I'd rather do more rolling than what I'm doing. I'm humbly trying to accept that my amazing professors know how to run a class with white belts, blue belts and purple belts better than I do. :)

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I agree a little...I don't even know how to respond to this.. It's like you responded while rapidly, scrolling up and down on the questions while throwing out assumptions at will. But I shall try...

I think drilling is so important that the "3 reps per person" angle IS in fact, an irresponsible overlook. I have been in the shoes of the guy that hasn't drilled a single move for over a year (but rolled ), and I am currently in the "so many drills of one move that I can't feel my legs" setting. I know both sides of the line and I have to say. I sucked when I didn't drill man.

Rolling, IMO, is the funnest and enriching part of class, when the techniques are solid. I don't believe that 3x techniques will even stick with a person that session, let alone for the rest of their careers.

Drill to Win.

Like Justin pointed out, there are different kinds of drilling. With live drills, you can have your cake and eat it too.

A lot of value in drilling or working something specific. Somedays during live rolling I want to work something specific (IE side control escapes) so ill put myself in that position and get out of it. You can turn it all in to some form of drilling.

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

A lot of value in drilling or working something specific. Somedays during live rolling I want to work something specific (IE side control escapes) so ill put myself in that position and get out of it. You can turn it all in to some form of drilling.

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Really agree with Brent, using people as training tools works well.

I hurt my knee about month ago and for that reason I had to leave rolling behind for a month. My knee was in good enough shape so I could still drill most techniques. I changed all my weekly sessions to only drilling couple of different areas and I got about 17 hours of active drilling every week. I feel like my game has never evolved as fast as it did during that month. I'm definitely going to keep drilling way more than before the injury even though my knee is now in better shape.

I can't understand why some people seem to dislike drilling techniques. It's a lot of fun if you have good drills planned (e.g. 10P warm ups)

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Originally Posted by Wancarlos

I agree a little...I don't even know how to respond to this.. It's like you responded while rapidly, scrolling up and down on the questions while throwing out assumptions at will. But I shall try...

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lol. Conversation on the internet is shady man. I wasn't sure what I was reading there. But it does kind of sound like you think the dude teaching you is irresponsible and maybe he should ask your advice about how to run an academy. I'm just saying. :)

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Originally Posted by Wancarlos

I think drilling is so important that the "3 reps per person" angle IS in fact, an irresponsible overlook. I have been in the shoes of the guy that hasn't drilled a single move for over a year (but rolled ), and I am currently in the "so many drills of one move that I can't feel my legs" setting. I know both sides of the line and I have to say. I sucked when I didn't drill man.

Rolling, IMO, is the funnest and enriching part of class, when the techniques are solid. I don't believe that 3x techniques will even stick with a person that session, let alone for the rest of their careers.

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I'm with you clear until the word irresponsible. You might as well say 'negligent' or 'incompetent.' Irresponsible!

Maybe I'm reading in too much, I don't know. Three times and move on, I wouldn't learn as well from that. Maybe.

Have you talked to your professor / coach about your thoughts on the matter?

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Originally Posted by Brian Tupper

Approach your rolling sessions with some sense of purpose. What technique are you going to work today?

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This. Precisely this. Beautifully this. I love this. Finally someone who understands me <3

I'm only just beginning to study 10th Planet, and people are getting pretty mad at me because "Why the fuck do you wanna play half-guard all the time? Damn, man, let's do something else".

I can't even get Old School right, and people keep asking. I keep telling them 'I need to work on some sweeps, man. And you're gonna encounter this in competition sooner or later...' Yeah.

It's crazy how this is even a discussion.

Imagine if this was a boxing forum :)

Those would be some seriously brain damaged boxers. I think drilling is extremely important and find it difficult to get in as much as I would like too. People just don't generally want to drill, they want to roll. I've actually trained at another gym where they only drilled one or two techniques a few times, then they rolled. 90 minutes of three minute rounds, and that's how they would practice techniques. They were all super good. I'm sure there was more to the story, but I couldn't believe it.