Effectiveness of the Lockdown

I train at a non-10th Planet school (I'm moving to 10th Planet St-Paul in December), and about once a week we have a guest instructor come in and teach. I was rolling against a kid half my size (I bet him dinner that I could triangle him) and ended up in half guard. I threw in the lockdown, as I always do, and prepared to electric sweep. The guest instructor (purple belt who owns a nearby MMA gym) tells us to stop and spends the next hour explaining how the lockdown is a gimmick that only works against people who don't know it, and should only be used on a situation by situation basis. His argument is you don't want to remove your mobility and limit sweep selection to the handful of lockdown based sweeps. He also said based on my size (6'1", 275 college lineman) the lockdown doesn't support larger legs well. While I understand his logic, I disagree, as I haven't had trouble against guys who are my size. Usually the tightness allows me to tap opponents based purely on pressure. All that said, I'd like to ask you guys the question, in what situations would the lockdown be unwise?
Edit: All of this within the context of tournament jiu jitsu.

Like under what circumstances would a person prefer standard half guard to lockdown half? Is that the question?

Yes, but also in general. This guy was very against the basic concept of locking down a leg. Is there ever a time within a roll that locking down with screw you?

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Originally Posted by Weston Smith

Is there ever a time within a roll that locking down with screw you?

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No, but better believe it'll save your ass

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Originally Posted by Weston Smith

I train at a non-10th Planet school (I'm moving to 10th Planet St-Paul in December), and about once a week we have a guest instructor come in and teach. I was rolling against a kid half my size (I bet him dinner that I could triangle him) and ended up in half guard. I threw in the lockdown, as I always do, and prepared to electric sweep. The guest instructor (purple belt who owns a nearby MMA gym) tells us to stop and spends the next hour explaining how the lockdown is a gimmick that only works against people who don't know it, and should only be used on a situation by situation basis. His argument is you don't want to remove your mobility and limit sweep selection to the handful of lockdown based sweeps. He also said based on my size (6'1", 275 college lineman) the lockdown doesn't support larger legs well. While I understand his logic, I disagree, as I haven't had trouble against guys who are my size. Usually the tightness allows me to tap opponents based purely on pressure. All that said, I'd like to ask you guys the question, in what situations would the lockdown be unwise?
Edit: All of this within the context of tournament jiu jitsu.

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http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/Eddie_Br...r_Gracie_3.gif

Oh really?

Let me just leave this here

http://youtu.be/JrJ7OmR-Zxc

The lockdown is unwise when you have 1 functioning leg, no arms, and the guy in your top half has a gun to your face, with and itchy trigger finger....in a tourney

I get lockdown sweeps on guys WAAYYY bigger and better than I. Just keep working it. You think the berimbolo works for everyone at the highest level? The guys that drill it day in and day out have the best results at that level. Always go for what you want, and drill it til no one can beat it. And then get that purple to tap from an EC.

I guess there's a submission that dudes can put on you if you have a lockdown in. Indian Death Lock? But if I recall correctly, they have to have broken your grips and be able to stand all the way up and begin to posture back. If you grab them and pull them down you can just stop them?

I'm reaching here man. I love the lockdown. It's been my focus for weeks. I pulled an electric chair sweep on a blue belt who is partial to The Way of the 10th Planet today and he got pretty excited. He beat me anyway. But he started calling me Joshua "The Electrician" Jarboe.

I hope it sticks. ;)

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/Eddie_Br...r_Gracie_3.gif

Oh really?

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

Let me just leave this here

http://youtu.be/JrJ7OmR-Zxc

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Hahahaha. This was actually my first counterpoint to him. His response was "Royler didn't know what he was doing. Try a lockdown against someone who does."

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Originally Posted by Wancarlos

And then get that purple to tap from an EC.

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I actually managed to partially do this. We were arguing over how he'd never let me have the underhooks, so I whipped up and took them. Tapped him with the 'chair. However, he is recovering from gall bladder surgery, so I won't claim the tap was real.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

Like under what circumstances would a person prefer standard half guard to lockdown half? Is that the question?

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Yeah, when I'm looking for leg locks from half. Or if I want to transition into tornado guard or Popovitch deep half. Against certain guys, I'd rather be on my side than fight from flat on my back. But if I'm flat on my back, lockdown saves the day like 100% of the time. Lockdown does a lof of unlocking. Basically, if you're flat on your back, lockdown opens everything up because you have so many options from there. Oldschool sweep, electric series, dogfight series, stomp series, or you can use the whip up just to get to your side and transition to trad half or any other half guards you like to play. Lockdown ironically is like a key that does a lot more unlocking than locking.

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Originally Posted by Weston Smith

Yes, but also in general. This guy was very against the basic concept of locking down a leg. Is there ever a time within a roll that locking down with screw you?

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Nah. Lockdown saves my life when I'm half assing and get flattened.

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Originally Posted by Wancarlos

The lockdown is unwise when you have 1 functioning leg, no arms, and the guy in your top half has a gun to your face, with and itchy trigger finger....in a tourney

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lol. If it's not a tourney, you tell the gunman "Hey, I'm going light today" and then get the sweep? ;)

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Originally Posted by Weston Smith

Hahahaha. This was actually my first counterpoint to him. His response was "Royler didn't know what he was doing. Try a lockdown against someone who does."

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So we're to believe that a black belt doesn't know the lockdown? We're to believe that Royler never watched any of the easily available rolling footage of Eddie? That's a reach.


Louis Ho is another guy who, as a brown, was tapping blacks in comp with EC's. I don't know why guys have this ego trip like they're too good to get EC'd. Everyone who hates on it always has a simple "shut down." Like guys always say, "just rape choke em." But no dog. 10th planet as a whole, not just Eddie, has proven that the EC is money and rape chokes just aren't enough. Not to say the EC is invincible. I've fought off EC's and broken plenty of lockdowns. But it doesn't change the fact that the EC is money.

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Originally Posted by Weston Smith

Hahahaha. This was actually my first counterpoint to him. His response was "Royler didn't know what he was doing. Try a lockdown against someone who does."



I actually managed to partially do this. We were arguing over how he'd never let me have the underhooks, so I whipped up and took them. Tapped him with the 'chair. However, he is recovering from gall bladder surgery, so I won't claim the tap was real.

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Eddie put it to us like this when we were at the Midwest Training Camp. In the very primative sense of the lockdown it is a stalling position, to catch your breath, delay the pass, survive. But as you advance and put more time in, your lockdown becomes more offensive (even to other 10p soldiers), it becomes a weapon to save you from getting Arm Triangled, Kimura'd, Americana'd, and most of all sweep and submit.

I think two 10 P Black belts who are rolling together could potentially nullify the lockdown to electric chair path, but what about all the other stuff...There's so much game from the lockdown, I don't care how big or small you are, there's a way for you to get your electric underhooks, Perfect Double Unders, DogFight Series, Stomp Series, Stoner Control, Electric chairs by utilizing those key 1/2 guard movements.

I assume in his mind Deep Half doesn't work either...

He actually recommended I learn the deep half. That was his #1 replacement suggestion.

Handful of lockdown sweeps?! Wtf?! There's upwards of ten sweeps and a 'handful' of submissions from perfect double unders, whip down, and dog fight!

I agree though, you don't want to be immobile. However, the more you study 10P, you'll find that we're very mobile jiu jitsukas. We just move in unconventional ways.

Study the System. Master the System. Destroy with the System.

Well, deep half won't work if you have a two on one on his leg...obviously... ;)

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Originally Posted by Weston Smith

He actually recommended I learn the deep half. That was his #1 replacement suggestion.

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Why not know it all? Deep half is great, I use it alot. I think that Lockdown, is amazing as well and also gives you a sense of security when trying to go for deep half, having a strong 1/4 guard game is also a necessity as well.

I don't think there is an end-all-be-all guard but I do think having an array of guards to use at your disposal will only benefit you in the long run. However there's mad power in the lockdown and anyone with half a brain saw that in the Gracie vs. Bravo rematch.

As for tournaments, any Non-Advantage Based tournaments the lockdown doesn't hurt you, but with those crotchety ass IBJJF Crooks it does, any time your 2 legs on 1 with your back on the mat you can look for this

Attachment 2872

So yeah in the IBJJF it hurts you, but if you successfully sweep them it really doesn't matter at all

The lockdown is a great defense/offensive tool, but why aren't they teaching it in traditional gym? We been at our current gym for 3 years now and I don't see them teaching it at all. The kids get the taste of it because of me. This was last Friday, when Cora use the lockdown to fend off a 110 lb boy from Americaning her. Yet its not in the curriculum, ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHvtoAZTxAA&feature=youtu.be

If they use twister side control on ::: me ::: when I go to lockdown I get into trouble. Because the get their body weight across me with them on top and the electric chair is gone then I get my head smashed. You still got to remember the concept of your spine aligned with his spine and hips that is where getting to the dogfight with double under hooks is a better option for me. I keep him from getting cross body and passing my guard and his weight off me and his arms off my neck and head.

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Originally Posted by Cora Sek

The lockdown is a great defense/offensive tool, but why aren't they teaching it in traditional gym? We been at our current gym for 3 years now and I don't see them teaching it at all. The kids get the taste of it because of me. This was last Friday, when Cora use the lockdown to fend off a 110 lb boy from Americaning her. Yet its not in the curriculum, ever.

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Because the lockdown is 10th Planet specific.

People who think the lockdown "doesn't work" or "isn't viable" have never had a good lockdown player dominate their top halfguard game with it before.

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

Because the lockdown is 10th Planet specific.

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I've seen many people play the lockdown game, but they don't really know what to do after getting the lockdown. And these are higher color belt adults. They just put it on and stay there, no whipping of any kind. No offense at all.

Then they are not using it to its potential.

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

Then they are not using it to its potential.

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I guess its a good thing because if everyone is doing it, it won't be special to us...LOL

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Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

I guess there's a submission that dudes can put on you if you have a lockdown in. Indian Death Lock? But if I recall correctly, they have to have broken your grips and be able to stand all the way up and begin to posture back. If you grab them and pull them down you can just stop them?

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Eddie provided the solution to this problem recently. When the guy in top half posts on his free foot to start standing, you underhook that foot at the ANKLE and immediately start working for electric chair. It is actually easier to get the leg on the shoulder from this position than electric underhooks.

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Originally Posted by PatLee

Eddie provided the solution to this problem recently. When the guy in top half posts on his free foot to start standing, you underhook that foot at the ANKLE and immediately start working for electric chair. It is actually easier to get the leg on the shoulder from this position than electric underhooks.

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immediately using

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

People who think the lockdown "doesn't work" or "isn't viable" have never had a good lockdown player dominate their top halfguard game with it before.

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This is the truth. A bad lockdown player in MMA is going to get smashed (with fists and elbows) so I'm sure that has been this guys experience (Think Mir vs. Lesnar UFC 100).

Ever since I learned the lockdown, it's helped me immensely against bigger and better opponents. I've pnly been training for 3 months, but this single technique has saved my ass more than I can count.