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So this pass Sat I seen some of our people playing the electric chair and ran into some trouble. I notice that their opponent is hunting for the kimura as soon as they know the electric chair is coming. Are you guys experiencing this also? How do you protect yourself from kimura while going for that electric chair? Also what other counters have you experienced in playing the lockdown game? Thanks
underhooks
Jazz hands.
Bmac would probably be able to explain it better than me. But basically you try to knock their arms out from basing as you're angry rainbowing over, using your outstretched arms. You wanna make sure to hit right around the elbows, but especially with the electric underhooking arm, grab the back of the elbow on the same side arm, lock out your arm, and finish the sweep. This prevents them from using their arm and coming back towards you at all. Although, I've never actually run into kimura trouble in this spot, just chokes and neckties ;)
Actually cora got ezekeil choked while doing the electric chair. That was in GI.
Did she get Ezekiel choked with Electric Underhooks or midway to the Electric Chair? Normally your head would be so deep into their gut with Electric Underhooks that Ezekiel Chokes should be non-existent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cora Sek
She didnt get to the electric underhook. As soon as she got the lockdown and go for the underhook, he boy went for the kimura, she defend that, got stuck and he ezekeil choke her.
In this case , first of all, she needs to be very fast when getting from double unders to perfect double unders. Bmac is a wizard with the punch choke from this spot and really made me work to not sit in double unders. It should be "Red Team Go!" But if they have a punch choke fully locked, you need to extend the lockdown and push their elbows towards the crown of your head. Not sure about the gi grips, although, my friend, Kevin Culp, trains in the gi a lot, and where he finds that his lockdown counters gi grips the most is from whip down, rather than whip up. Work on the 5-0 sweep and control and the whip down to electric under hooks.
Common counters to my electric chair have been darces and baseball chokes - basically, I keep my head low and away from my opponents (cuz they need to close the distance for these chokes). When I have the opportunity, I shoot in directly for the electric undertooks, head tucked right into my opponent to keep myself safe. That's been really useful for me so far. :)
p.s. To avoid the "arm subs" like the kimura, I either t-rex, or use the Gracie method of placing my hand on my opponent's bicep (it REALLY helps to control and follow your opponent's arm movement, keeping yourself safe) - depending on what the other person's doing for offence/defence.
baseball bat choke or something like that. I got caught twice with it by the same person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cora Sek
whats the electic under hooks again? is that onehand under the opponents knee and the other around his waist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Davidson
Really helpful answers Ross, thanks. I started getting kimura'd or choked constantly when I was first learning lockdown. People figure out that they are stuck and their focus seems to go from "pass" to "submit." I started figuring out that the whip can keep them at bay, but I'm still working on it.
These days if my arm gets attacked, it's usually when I'm trying to go from double-unders to electric underhooks. I suspect I need to whip up or whip down before I reach for that leg.
My way around the Kimura threat is having a deep underhook on the left side. I'm basically shoving my shoulder into their armpit. I'm also graining l grabbing their trap area with my hand. That works for me.
If you got a real player on top of you, you better make your move. Don't sit there and try to let him unwind it or find a submission. Vai Vai Vai!
I think that is the real key here Brandon. I notice that what went wrong with Cora was that, it was her 1st few match and she hasn't work out all the bugs yet. But after her div was over and she started to challenge everyone, little by little I can see the improvement in her electric chair. She got into it faster. And even though some of those boys still going after her arm, they couldn't because she already into the motion of throwing them around. Those 3 videos I post were some of the later matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
The kimura is weak, almost useless if you use your lockdown properly. Ezekiel chokes and darces and guillotines are all part of the lockdown game. Cora will get caught in the beginning but if she sticks with it it will happen less and less. Keep your shrugging on high alert when battling for the electric underhooks, and straighten your neck everytime your opponent commits to a vice grip. It's like boxing, you are constantly defending punches while looking for the ko urself :)
I think neck strengthen exercise is in order. She really liking the lockdown game and we just want to know what kind of counters are out there so we wont be surprised by it. 3-4 more months you should see the difference.
The trouble with the lockdown ec is that your hips are stuck. Edie tells us in mts that you will face chokes in this position. You have to be ready to counter and get your hips back and away. Eddie had the lockdown in mm3 but if yo notice he had his hips away from Royler and would not let him get cross body on him from the top then when Royler got his hip to far over Eddie went for the Ec. And had the battle in good odds as both of his arms and both of his legs were attacking Roylers two legs. I tend to get my hips stuck messing around underneath there and her comes the attack with two arms around my head and I have to pull away and defend while getting smashed...the concept of hip alignment and spine alignment does not go away just because you have a lock down...hope this makes sense...lol
Hips shouldn't be getting stuck if you can whip down, back, and up effectively :)
Not sure why your hips are getting "stuck". I wasn't waiting for Royler to put his weight anywhere, I just got on the inside and took what I needed :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockanrollin
I get them stuck when guys that have 20 lbs( and usually 25 years younger) or more weight advantage. :)) but I still think that spine alignment concept is in play .
and you can't ignore it .
and if they do get cross body on you and into twister side control and you are not wearing gi pants and he works the escapes that you show in mts your goin to get your guard passed. ... Each roll is different and it depends on who you are tangled up with :))
Guys my own weight I can use whip up whip down and whip upside down and get the sweep or the ec sub ect.
I just think for me mostly with younger stronger guys the perfect double hooks to dog fight is the better path because then there is no weight on my hips where as I can follow that path in the flow chart....peace! :))
Listen up LD1/2 players!!
The master dropping knowledge bombs!!!!!!!!.
You gotta be wiling to put yourself through the fire. I clearly remember Eddie always teaching, that learning the LD1/2 game WITHOUT guillotines/JNT/Darces will NOT develop the necessary habits to help accelerate and bring success to your bottom half game. Its the key. And.......even then........its always fierce and dangerous in there ALL the time. It keeps me mentally sharp playing this way. Makes me push hard. Cora will have to endure but in the end, the rewards are always rendered if you don't give up on the LD 1/2 game.
Thank you Frank. You are absolutely correct. I dont see how to avoid it but just to learn how to adapt to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANK BARCA
I saw a question about avoiding the kimura in LD1/2. IMO there is only a certain range of motion i.e. "no man's land" where you can get kimura'd thru that move. The same thing exists in deep half game. Keeping deep on the underhook first avoids that range on entry where it is vulnerable, then when you are more between on your side and flat on your back they can snag a figure 4 grip and kimura you. As you turn thru it's not there any more. In both deep half and LD1/2 I've been hiding my arm under the leg I've got LD on when threatened or even generally thru that range. Been seeing more consistent results. HTH. Yes a good whip kind of nullifies that threat but is another option if your stuck.
I think right now Cora isnt get on her side fast enough to hide that arm. We will work on it today and see what the problem is. I think you are on point with the ROM thing. Thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Milner
Your hips aren't stuck. You aren't limiting your hip mobility. You simply have to learn to move your hips in a non-traditional way.
BJJ players are accustomed to using the shrimping motion (connecting your feet to the mat and moving your butt) to get their hips moving. That's a totally appropriate thing to do. However, the nature of the lockdown (outside foot on the inside of the entaglement) prevents that traditional style of hip movement. So, either you have to learn a new way to move or you get stuck.
However, by attaching your self to your opponent with the lockdown, you've effectivcely established a 2 on 1 situation against his trapped leg. That leg is a lever to his hip. Wherever his hip turns, his body must turn. By learning to whip properly and effectively, you can get to your side in an incredibly powerful and offensive manner.
You just gotta be willing to learn to move your hips in a new way.
Every Jiu Jitsu class across the globe does shrimps to start the class. They are practicing moving their hips in this way. Of course that seems like the easier way when they meet resistance in the half guard! How many reps have they got on shrimps? Conversely, how many classes are they opening by learning to move their hips with the whips? ZERO. So which style of half guard will they view as succesful?
True ! And on the ec sweep you get his legs and his hips past your head and spine and hips and groin, then he has to use his arms and legs to base. Then all your weapons are clear for attack. And that is the beauty of this transition. But you got to go to war for it.
My dawgQuote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren
Just to update. Electric chair is getting more and more solid now. Cora's whip is getting stronger as we been working on her core strength. Also we breaking it down nice and slow, making sure she understand each positions and the danger that are present. Also making sure she know what are the safe zone and how important it is to get there asap. She's embracing this as she did the rubber guard. Its getting exciting!!!!!
i c what u mean, more than 15 to 20 pounds its much harder, but im relatively new to the electric chair path, I used to use the old way (maybe not considered old just another way, or less % way??) with the whip up.
I did the new way with the whip down path and surprising I had some success with it more than I thought this early.
Is there any video on how to finish the guillotine from LD 1/2? I've gotten into that position on many occasions, but have never even come close to finding the correct angle to finish it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANK BARCA
I love when people go for the farce from LD 1/2. Makes the sweep that much easier (Mechanic)