Creonte

Hi guys, as a 10P ronin I was wondering the views on this particular term or issue I suppose you could label it. As if I started training at a regular school would I be referred to the term? What might I expect to encounter? I mean I want to be honest student and there is no way I'm giving up learning the 10P system, but need somewhere to train. I know Braulio mentioned in Jiu Jitsu Style mag, it would hurt his feelings if a student had a relationship with another school. So I'm just curious on the general consensus of the creonte issue.

all depends on the school.

Well I was looking at the GB down here, but after reading Braulios thoughts I'm not so sure. Most seem to be GB affiliated down here.

Don't let one person's thoughts change your mind, not everyone is as close minded.

It's a stupid term that I have honestly NEVER heard until I started watching GB techs on youtube (don't judge me, I was young).
It is an outdated term, and the internet has ruined the credibility of the term. Everyone knows every one else's moves, if they don't know yet, they will. I'm doing Caio, keenan, Leandro, Rafa Eddie, Nathan, Zog Jitsu, everyone shares techniques nowadays.
Braulio HIMSELF has gone to Marcelo's school to teach classes. Are all of those students now Creontes?
I think you go where you want to go and use every move you desire, for the sake of reps. If they don't like you for it, beat them all the more with it.
(excluding leg locks, they kill white belts for leg locks)

Tippy, let me encourage you to get out there! I train 4 days a week at an mma gym with 6 UFC fighters and another dozen with pro experience. The black belt and brown belt that teach me don't care about anything except my attitude. I am middle aged and get smashed but I am improving every single week. I hit the 100% 3 times yesterday and the head instructor praised me for it. All it takes is a tiny morsel of recognition to keep you coming back. Keep smiling and hitting the Lockdown to Oldschool and watch how quickly you make friends and earn respect. Go getthem my UK brother!

So from the little I've learned about the term, it was originally intended for guys who were free students that were raised by one instructor for years only to have them abandon ship for another team. IMO, that justifies the term creonte. In Brazil some students were allowed to train for free if they showed great potential and helped out around the gym. Instructors usually took them in as youngsters so they see them almost like sons. So yeah, when you take your black belt and head somewhere else without your instructor's blessing, then yeah, you're a creonte.

But for guys like us, 10th P Ronins, we're not creontes. First off, we're not abandoning our roots. And if you don't have 10th P roots, then what are you betraying? How could you be a creonte if you do side work for your game?

My advice is this: Just be a student. If your instructor asks why you're looking into 10th P or why you're using 10th P moves, just explain that you want to learn everything and you're honored to be learning from him, but you also like a lot of the 10th planet material and want to learn that too.

I have yet to encounter any trouble at any gym that I've attended since leaving 10th planet roc. I'm sure if I showed up like, "I'm just using you guys for mat time but I'm going to do my own thing and learn 10th planet and try it out here," I doubt that I'd be welcome. But since I show an eagerness to learn, whether it's a basic knee slice or a fancy deep half sweep, the instructors are just as eager to teach. Plus, they always see that in every roll, I'm always using a little bit of what I learned that day.

All that said, I haven't dealt with GB yet. I do hear they can be a bit cultish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Rosado

So from the little I've learned about the term, it was originally intended for guys who were free students that were raised by one instructor for years only to have them abandon ship for another team. IMO, that justifies the term creonte. In Brazil some students were allowed to train for free if they showed great potential and helped out around the gym. Instructors usually took them in as youngsters so they see them almost like sons. So yeah, when you take your black belt and head somewhere else without your instructor's blessing, then yeah, you're a creonte.

But for guys like us, 10th P Ronins, we're not creontes. First off, we're not abandoning our roots. And if you don't have 10th P roots, then what are you betraying? How could you be a creonte if you do side work for your game?

My advice is this: Just be a student. If your instructor asks why you're looking into 10th P or why you're using 10th P moves, just explain that you want to learn everything and you're honored to be learning from him, but you also like a lot of the 10th planet material and want to learn that too.

I have yet to encounter any trouble at any gym that I've attended since leaving 10th planet roc. I'm sure if I showed up like, "I'm just using you guys for mat time but I'm going to do my own thing and learn 10th planet and try it out here," I doubt that I'd be welcome. But since I show an eagerness to learn, whether it's a basic knee slice or a fancy deep half sweep, the instructors are just as eager to teach. Plus, they always see that in every roll, I'm always using a little bit of what I learned that day.

All that said, I haven't dealt with GB yet. I do hear they can be a bit cultish.

---

This

Thanks guys you lot are awesome. Every where is GB even the mma teams are affiliated. Both Daves are right. I'll let you guys know if they are as cultish as their rep is. But otherwise fuck it I'm there to train. Nuff sed:D

Show up to his class to learn his techniques. When he asks you to drill his techniques during class time, drill his techniques. If in during a free rolling or open mat type scenario, if you doing whatever techniques you want (barring stuff like reaping, neck cranks, y' know all the things that are "against the rules" in the gi) and he just gives you giref, then keep on rolling. However, if it creates more drama than that and he out and out forbids it, then you have a crossroads: play by his rules, or leave his school. If it comes to it, if he doesn't allow any 10P techs in his school, you may have to find another school, which if you don't have alot of options would really suck.

Hope everything works out for you dude.

i train at a gracie barra here in springfield,il my professor or any of the students dont look at me as a creonte. I started at a 10th planet school and continue to go to alton when ever i get the chance to drive the 200 miles round trip, but my professor loves that i bring a different game of jiu jitsu to the table, just like i told bj the other day both gracie barra and 10th planet come from 2 of the same same people grand master carlos and master carlos jr. so i think if anybody in gracie barra calls you a creonte they are fucking ignorent and need to learn the lineage of jiu jitsu Grand master carlos, master carlos jr, JJ machado, eddie bravo.I walk in everyday to class with either a 10th planet shirt or shorts on i wear my 10p rash guards under my kimono my professor doesnt care Grand master carlos, master carlos jr, JJ machado, eddie bravo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JR Redfox

i train at a gracie barra here in springfield,il my professor or any of the students dont look at me as a creonte. I started at a 10th planet school and continue to go to alton when ever i get the chance to drive the 200 miles round trip, but my professor loves that i bring a different game of jiu jitsu to the table, just like i told bj the other day both gracie barra and 10th planet come from 2 of the same same people grand master carlos and master carlos jr. so i think if anybody in gracie barra calls you a creonte they are fucking ignorent and need to learn the lineage of jiu jitsu Grand master carlos, master carlos jr, JJ machado, eddie bravo.I walk in everyday to class with either a 10th planet shirt or shorts on i wear my 10p rash guards under my kimono my professor doesnt care Grand master carlos, master carlos jr, JJ machado, eddie bravo

---

plus rep brother. Very well put.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad Clark

Show up to his class to learn his techniques. When he asks you to drill his techniques during class time, drill his techniques. If in during a free rolling or open mat type scenario, if you doing whatever techniques you want (barring stuff like reaping, neck cranks, y' know all the things that are "against the rules" in the gi) and he just gives you giref, then keep on rolling. However, if it creates more drama than that and he out and out forbids it, then you have a crossroads: play by his rules, or leave his school. If it comes to it, if he doesn't allow any 10P techs in his school, you may have to find another school, which if you don't have alot of options would really suck.

Hope everything works out for you dude.

---

I've seen this ultimatum thrown around this forum a lot. And it's partially true, but I also think it's a bit much. Good schools dont' grow on trees. Some mat time is better than no mat time. Reps in basic BJJ is better than zero reps in 10th planet. Granted I haven't visited every school in the world. But my last head instructor, and my current head instructor, are straight from Brazil, hardcore traditional guys. We have a picture of Helio on the wall at my current school. Yet I have had zero issues when I use 10th planet material.

Why? I believe my experiences have been good due to plain and simple politeness and humility. Your house. Your rules. I'll have wide open heel hooks, calf crushes, bicep slicers. And I'll simply ask during the roll, are heel hooks ok? Some don't care. They want the challenge of escaping. Some will just smile and politely ask that we play IBJJF rules. Don't just dive on every sub and hope for the best. Their house, their rules. During rolls, it's not about the tap. It's about learning. And I always use what I learned in class that day to show that I AM there to learn, not just to do my own 10th planet thing.

You're not competing. You're rolling. And rolling, in my humble opinion, is an extension of learning directly from the instructor. It's the laboratory. It's the experiment room. It's not to go out and tap everyone. It's to try out what you know, what you've learned, and toy with what you think you know. So if someone doesn't wanna play calf crushes and heel hooks, that's cool. No twisters? Fine. I'm not mad that I couldn't get a tap when I had an opening. I'm just happy I'm learning. Know what I mean? Do I miss reaping the knee? Of COURSE!!!! Hahah. But I'm already decent at that. I catch knee knots nearly whenever I feel like it. But my knee slice sucks..my basic armbar sucks...my guard recovery sucks... so it's more of a chance to work on other material instead of only my A game. Right?

In my experience, as long as you are eagerly learning and implementing the game they're teaching you, they really won't have a problem with you using 10th planet material at your own leisure. IMO, the key is simply showing passion for BJJ as a whole. You show that you're hungry to learn, and they'll be hungry to teach. You be polite and respectful to your partners, and they'll be more open to exchange ideas and even rep 10th planet moves with you.

I've been spoiled by 10th planet Rochester. I thought gyms like this grew on trees. I thought moving to a big city, it would be easy to find a replacement. As much as I love my new school, nothing is like 10th Planet Roc. And I had to accept that. My point is this: don't just leave a school because they don't let you do 10th planet material from day one. Earn your stripes. Play their rules. Show that you're there to learn. Show that you're a part of the team, not just there to do your own thing. At that point, they'll be ok with you branching out and trying your own thing. And I give this advice because I took a year off because I wasn't happy with my last school. And I regret that time off a lot. Like A LOTTTTTTTTT. Don't just leave a school.

Any mat time is better than no mat time. It may not be ideal. But it's still better than losing your muscle memory and instincts. Play by their rules until they're comfortable letting you play by your own. Humility will take you a long way. A studious spirit will give you the green light with a most instructors.

By no means am I fluent in the 10th p techniques, but the few basic things I do know (lockdown, elec sweep) are okay at my school. They do instruct is within the IBJJF rules, but when its no-gi, its no-gi rules. I see guys pulling heel hooks, knee bars etc. The basic rubber guard path to armbar was taught at an all levels class. It doesn't always happen but I would like to say that my training environment is open minded and many styles are encouraged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sergio Lozoya

By no means am I fluent in the 10th p techniques, but the few basic things I do know (lockdown, elec sweep) are okay at my school. They do instruct is within the IBJJF rules, but when its no-gi, its no-gi rules. I see guys pulling heel hooks, knee bars etc. The basic rubber guard path to armbar was taught at an all levels class. It doesn't always happen but I would like to say that my training environment is open minded and many styles are encouraged.

---

thats the same at the gb im at infact my professor asked me to teach some 10p tech at nogi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JR Redfox

i train at a gracie barra here in springfield,il my professor or any of the students dont look at me as a creonte. I started at a 10th planet school and continue to go to alton when ever i get the chance to drive the 200 miles round trip, but my professor loves that i bring a different game of jiu jitsu to the table, just like i told bj the other day both gracie barra and 10th planet come from 2 of the same same people grand master carlos and master carlos jr. so i think if anybody in gracie barra calls you a creonte they are fucking ignorent and need to learn the lineage of jiu jitsu Grand master carlos, master carlos jr, JJ machado, eddie bravo.I walk in everyday to class with either a 10th planet shirt or shorts on i wear my 10p rash guards under my kimono my professor doesnt care Grand master carlos, master carlos jr, JJ machado, eddie bravo

---

Awesome, that was my next question regarding rash guards so thank you brother :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Rosado

I've seen this ultimatum thrown around this forum a lot. And it's partially true, but I also think it's a bit much. Good schools dont' grow on trees. Some mat time is better than no mat time. Reps in basic BJJ is better than zero reps in 10th planet. Granted I haven't visited every school in the world. But my last head instructor, and my current head instructor, are straight from Brazil, hardcore traditional guys. We have a picture of Helio on the wall at my current school. Yet I have had zero issues when I use 10th planet material.

Why? I believe my experiences have been good due to plain and simple politeness and humility. Your house. Your rules. I'll have wide open heel hooks, calf crushes, bicep slicers. And I'll simply ask during the roll, are heel hooks ok? Some don't care. They want the challenge of escaping. Some will just smile and politely ask that we play IBJJF rules. Don't just dive on every sub and hope for the best. Their house, their rules. During rolls, it's not about the tap. It's about learning. And I always use what I learned in class that day to show that I AM there to learn, not just to do my own 10th planet thing.

You're not competing. You're rolling. And rolling, in my humble opinion, is an extension of learning directly from the instructor. It's the laboratory. It's the experiment room. It's not to go out and tap everyone. It's to try out what you know, what you've learned, and toy with what you think you know. So if someone doesn't wanna play calf crushes and heel hooks, that's cool. No twisters? Fine. I'm not mad that I couldn't get a tap when I had an opening. I'm just happy I'm learning. Know what I mean? Do I miss reaping the knee? Of COURSE!!!! Hahah. But I'm already decent at that. I catch knee knots nearly whenever I feel like it. But my knee slice sucks..my basic armbar sucks...my guard recovery sucks... so it's more of a chance to work on other material instead of only my A game. Right?

In my experience, as long as you are eagerly learning and implementing the game they're teaching you, they really won't have a problem with you using 10th planet material at your own leisure. IMO, the key is simply showing passion for BJJ as a whole. You show that you're hungry to learn, and they'll be hungry to teach. You be polite and respectful to your partners, and they'll be more open to exchange ideas and even rep 10th planet moves with you.

I've been spoiled by 10th planet Rochester. I thought gyms like this grew on trees. I thought moving to a big city, it would be easy to find a replacement. As much as I love my new school, nothing is like 10th Planet Roc. And I had to accept that. My point is this: don't just leave a school because they don't let you do 10th planet material from day one. Earn your stripes. Play their rules. Show that you're there to learn. Show that you're a part of the team, not just there to do your own thing. At that point, they'll be ok with you branching out and trying your own thing. And I give this advice because I took a year off because I wasn't happy with my last school. And I regret that time off a lot. Like A LOTTTTTTTTT. Don't just leave a school.

Any mat time is better than no mat time. It may not be ideal. But it's still better than losing your muscle memory and instincts. Play by their rules until they're comfortable letting you play by your own. Humility will take you a long way. A studious spirit will give you the green light with a most instructors.

---

Cool awesome advice thanks David, it seems like I'm in you past situation.