So, I took an ass whoopin at a seminar...

I've been quiet for a few months now. A little depressed, injured, and embarrassed as well. I've been very vocal about cross training at our 3 other local schools since I opened 2 and half years ago. I worked for one which wouldn't allow me to teach what I chose and stressed that I tested and sold belts on schedule. That didn't last long before I refused and ultimately walked out. I wasn't familiar with the other 2 so I always told my students to try them and decide along with their parents. The first year I was open, with the help of 10th Planet brotherhood, I won the area's best martial arts instructor award. The "Grand Master" of a Tae Kwon Jitsu school put in the newspaper that I was a moron who couldn't spell martial arts much less teach it. My response was a call out to all local schools for a submission only match to decide the winner. Yeah I know, it was childish on my part. Needless to say, we sit on the mats and nobody ever showed.
A year later I get an invite at this school for a jiu jitsu/mma seminar. I payed my money and took my best student along with his parents to make sure no fuckery was afoot. We started with an hour and a half of insane warmups. Wrestling shots, throws, partner carry drills, plain stupidity, until they thought we were gassed. Now I find out that the brown belt instructor is really a blue belt. Anyways, we do 2 grip breaks, a guard break, and a choke as tech for a half hour then it's time to roll. I tried to get video but was warned against it. I told the parents here's where it's going to get real and to watch their son. The rolls were one at a time 2 minutes of pure fucking combat! Right off the bat a black belt tries kicking me in the mouth. I clinched and pulled guard with double unders to whether the storm. He couldn't pass and I went to full guard. He tried a few times before simply breaking and flying over my guard with a 270 lb elbow to my nose. This broke my nose and knocked me out for a few moments. After cleaning up the instructor was ready for me. He was smoother and I granby rolled out of his side control twice before he caught on. The third time he allowed it, stopped me near inverted, and shoved his knee in my arm pit. Then he neck cranked me until I ultimately had cervical vertebrae protruding. I sit with the parents and told them it was time to go. They wanted to see their 13 year old white belt against the schools 16 year old black belt. I didn't think it was a good idea but it literally started before I could stop it. Lucas tapped him 3 times in 2 minutes. They kept feeding him black belts and he kept choking them kids and adults.
So let's here it family. Where did I fuck up as a coach here? Should I have never gone? Am I just butt hurt? I need to hear the truth please.

It sounds like the guy was a douchebag that elbowed the nose. No offense to ANY gi guys but it seems like they are way rougher than Nogi purists. And no offense at all but sounds like you were kinda butt hurt. Don't let the small shit get to you. EVERYONE gets humbled. That feeling was just the ego leaving the body. Just chalk it up as a learning experience. Just my two cents

Sounds like you need a good earful from Zog. Brace yourself.

I hope to hear from Zog, I always respect his opinion. The thing is I was humble going in. I shook his hand, introduced ourselves to everyone, asked about their training, etc. I made it clear that I was already injured and was simply there to learn. The experience left me with over $5,000 in medical bills. I was honestly trying to be as humble as possible. I asked questions about the technique, I didn't teach, I was there to learn. If I knew we weren't grappling, I'd have brought mma guys with me.

You fought him on his turf and expected him to play the way you would. You were there for sport and they were there for a fight. Its hard when your idea of a fight is he walks out of his front porch into a bullet, and everything else should be sport. These punks have more of a gang jump you mentality, I have seen it in so many karate and kung fu gyms it makes me sick.

Basically you were ambushed by guys who are shitty at ambushing, so you got hurt a little. At least your alive. Imagine if it was your ambush, it could have gone much worse. At the end of the day it wasn't a fight, let them believe it was and let them think they are better, it doesn't really matter. Just next time, if there is one, hit him back. I firmly believe that win or lose you make it cost the other guy, its never free, and if he escalates the violence then you do. Max violence in the shortest amount of time, but I assume you already know this.

I am makeing a lot of assumptions because of your special operator tag and airborne, you get where I am going with this.

You saw of the guy getting beat up I put on the worst martial arts Instructor thread, there are bad people out there. He escalated the violence before you did, that happens...be thankful it wasn't worse. Don't be to down, everybody gets beat, just learn from it.

Many people mistake humility for weakness, and the deal of fighting the student then the teacher used to be pretty common, it gives the teacher the advantage. They didn't beat you, they out played you. It doesn't mean they are better, or even worth a piss, it happens to the best of us and you know that. Just be wiser next time. And always play to win:)

I've taken a good lesson away and I'll just stay on my own turf. I'm sure my own ego got me there in the first place. I honestly should have known better, I've always had an unrealistic expectation of how cross training should be handled. Some places it is and others are simply brain washed religious cults. I just picked a bad one and got my ass handed to me. It's nothing that some more training and a little harder work on the mats won't fix.

Sorry to hear about that shity experience, must be frustrating. The other guy is the one who started the shit it was up to him to challenge u in your place not the other way around, there were no refs so I'm not surprised he cheap shoted u in the nose. It was a bad decision to go there but u learned your lesson, there s no reason for unnecessary violence.

16 year old bjj black belt or another martial art?

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Originally Posted by Tony "The Goods" Garcia

I've been quiet for a few months now. A little depressed, injured, and embarrassed as well. I've been very vocal about cross training at our 3 other local schools since I opened 2 and half years ago. I worked for one which wouldn't allow me to teach what I chose and stressed that I tested and sold belts on schedule. That didn't last long before I refused and ultimately walked out. I wasn't familiar with the other 2 so I always told my students to try them and decide along with their parents. The first year I was open, with the help of 10th Planet brotherhood, I won the area's best martial arts instructor award. The "Grand Master" of a Tae Kwon Jitsu school put in the newspaper that I was a moron who couldn't spell martial arts much less teach it. My response was a call out to all local schools for a submission only match to decide the winner. Yeah I know, it was childish on my part. Needless to say, we sit on the mats and nobody ever showed.
A year later I get an invite at this school for a jiu jitsu/mma seminar. I payed my money and took my best student along with his parents to make sure no fuckery was afoot. We started with an hour and a half of insane warmups. Wrestling shots, throws, partner carry drills, plain stupidity, until they thought we were gassed. Now I find out that the brown belt instructor is really a blue belt. Anyways, we do 2 grip breaks, a guard break, and a choke as tech for a half hour then it's time to roll. I tried to get video but was warned against it. I told the parents here's where it's going to get real and to watch their son. The rolls were one at a time 2 minutes of pure fucking combat! Right off the bat a black belt tries kicking me in the mouth. I clinched and pulled guard with double unders to whether the storm. He couldn't pass and I went to full guard. He tried a few times before simply breaking and flying over my guard with a 270 lb elbow to my nose. This broke my nose and knocked me out for a few moments. After cleaning up the instructor was ready for me. He was smoother and I granby rolled out of his side control twice before he caught on. The third time he allowed it, stopped me near inverted, and shoved his knee in my arm pit. Then he neck cranked me until I ultimately had cervical vertebrae protruding. I sit with the parents and told them it was time to go. They wanted to see their 13 year old white belt against the schools 16 year old black belt. I didn't think it was a good idea but it literally started before I could stop it. Lucas tapped him 3 times in 2 minutes. They kept feeding him black belts and he kept choking them kids and adults.
So let's here it family. Where did I fuck up as a coach here? Should I have never gone? Am I just butt hurt? I need to hear the truth please.

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"My response was a call out to all local schools for a submission only match to decide the winner"

"I payed my money and took my best student along with his parents to make sure no fuckery was afoot"

I'm going to be harsh here. You brought kids into a situation that you were concerned to go into alone. You know that video where the guy was invited into the school and then attacked and beaten (possibly to death?) that you commented on yesterday? There is a moral to that story.

If you CAN'T FIND IT WITHIN YOURSELF TO LET RUDE COMMENTS FROM ANOUTHER INSTRUCTOR SLIDE without issuing a challenge, then expect bad stuff if you show in there gym and want to compete with them in combat sports. To bring a child student in with you in that situation that you entirely created seems incredibly irresponsible. Just be thankful it was just you hurt. And that stands in my book weather or not tapping was a possibility in that neck crank. If it was, you should have.

Once again. I have gotten all my information from just this paragraph you posted and might not have the full story so you can take that under consideration. Just know that your CHILD STUDENTS SAFTEY should come first or you have no business teaching kids.

This sentence bothered me allot and it bears repeating in answer where you went wrong as a coach: "I payed my money and took my best student along with his parents to make sure no fuckery was afoot"

Please consider this. I wish you the best Tony.

~Brian Debes

I'll be honest I agree with Brian X 1000. Endangering the welfare of a minor shows a serious lack of responsibility and judgment. Be lucky you only got your ass whipped for being a fuckhead and none else got hurt but you.

Agree as well. The whole story is weird/concerning.

Only going from what you typed but it sounds 100% fuelled by ego. You didn't go to the seminar to learn, you went to 'prove' yourself and what got proved was that you shouldn't have been there ESPECIALLY with a kid and his parents!?

You asked for honesty, just giving it. Hope you can take some positive away from it and am glad you escaped with minor injuries and the kid was ok.

Much love.

I agree with Zog and Brian. The reason I took the student and parents was because it was literally full of kids his age as well. I talked with the owner, guest instructor, and parents before deciding. I guess it was still a bad choice. Nobody is hurting my feelings here, I'm glad I'm getting some feedback. Thanks guys.

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Originally Posted by Tony "The Goods" Garcia

... Right off the bat a black belt tries kicking me in the mouth. I clinched and pulled guard with double unders to whether the storm. He couldn't pass and I went to full guard. He tried a few times before simply breaking and flying over my guard with a 270 lb elbow to my nose. This broke my nose and knocked me out for a few moments...

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This is insane... Did you agree upon a Pro MMA match/all out fight? You should have left right after this, no way I would let any student compete in this type of match outside of a sanctioned MMA bout. As head instructor you need to be leading by example and protecting your students. You also need to clearly understand the "rules" of any match you engage in. Elbows are serious as fuck, if someone is throwing them it is time to destroy them or get the fuck out.

I'll take my lumps like a man, I'm not going to argue. I understand that I made a bad decision, however I'd like to answer a few questions. There were no legitimate bjj ranks there except the seminar instructor ( he wore a brown belt but admitted to only being a blue. It turned out that he was actually the "Grand Master's son as well). The time line between me calling out the instructors and this seminar was well over a year. We signed up for a seminar, not an mma match. I took my best student because it was a seminar, just like Samuel Braga & Carrico that I take him to as well.
It really doesn't matter as I can't change the past. I was interested in hearing from the 10WO and I did. Lessons learned. I made a bad decision, but I don't want the reputation of endangering children. I've taught kids martial arts classes for over 20 years and have never had an issue such as this.

Just curious Tony, you are ex military or active right?

Prior Army yes Sir.

This is a troubling story in several ways, Tony. I don't know you personally at all and I hope that you don't take this as a personal attack.

Perhaps the most beautiful thing about jiujitsu is the confrontation and defeat of the ego which occurs every time you tap out. If you find yourself ruled by pride, you may try to 'excuse' the submission and then return to sparring with increased intensity in order to 'prove' that you're somehow 'better' than the submission showed. But surely the correct response is to admire the correctness of the technique that was applied, and search your actions for the errors which led you into failure. In doing this, you are reminded that you are eternally a work in progress, and that you have just been pushed along the path in the correct direction towards ultimate and unattainable perfection.

There is nothing to prove, no value at all in winning at a gym, and no reason not to abandon a situation that is for any reason counterproductive. If your opponent is bigger/stronger/more skilled compared to you, tap out. If your opponent is rolling spastically and you feel physically threatened, tap out and stop rolling with him. If you are actually physically injured, you go home and heal or at minimum sit out and watch. If anything is incorrect, you leave. Tap out, and just walk away.

If the only thing you had said was that you had broken your nose and continued rolling, I would already be flabbergasted. Why on Earth would you do such a thing?

In order to convince people that your martial art is correct, you do not 'beat' them; you show by example what it is you hope to achieve through your art. There is no need to bully, brag, challenge, humiliate, belittle, or antagonize anyone; simply be polite, respectful, and practice your art. People will eventually come around. Or they won't; does it matter?

Both you and your pride have been wounded. I hope you heal well but that your pride dies, Tony.

I'm disappointed to hear this story on several different levels.

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Originally Posted by Amir Allam

This is a troubling story in several ways, Tony. I don't know you personally at all and I hope that you don't take this as a personal attack.

Perhaps the most beautiful thing about jiujitsu is the confrontation and defeat of the ego which occurs every time you tap out. If you find yourself ruled by pride, you may try to 'excuse' the submission and then return to sparring with increased intensity in order to 'prove' that you're somehow 'better' than the submission showed. But surely the correct response is to admire the correctness of the technique that was applied, and search your actions for the errors which led you into failure. In doing this, you are reminded that you are eternally a work in progress, and that you have just been pushed along the path in the correct direction towards ultimate and unattainable perfection.

There is nothing to prove, no value at all in winning at a gym, and no reason not to abandon a situation that is for any reason counterproductive. If your opponent is bigger/stronger/more skilled compared to you, tap out. If your opponent is rolling spastically and you feel physically threatened, tap out and stop rolling with him. If you are actually physically injured, you go home and heal or at minimum sit out and watch. If anything is incorrect, you leave. Tap out, and just walk away.

If the only thing you had said was that you had broken your nose and continued rolling, I would already be flabbergasted. Why on Earth would you do such a thing?

In order to convince people that your martial art is correct, you do not 'beat' them; you show by example what it is you hope to achieve through your art. There is no need to bully, brag, challenge, humiliate, belittle, or antagonize anyone; simply be polite, respectful, and practice your art. People will eventually come around. Or they won't; does it matter?

Both you and your pride have been wounded. I hope you heal well but that your pride dies, Tony.

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Thank you Sir, beautifully written as usual. There's a lot of knowledge here that I need to learn.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

I'm disappointed to hear this story on several different levels.

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I'm sorry to have disappointed you Coach.

I see, I assumed you were with the tags. Just remember the kids arn't recruits and we arn't in combat in the gym. People try so hard to associate martial arts with combat or samurai and stuff, but it isn't. Thats why I love the 10th planet, its sport, eddie says he doesn't even like to roll with angry people, and thats how I feel most of the time.

Its hard separating your military training from the gym sometimes, I understand that. During WW11 14 year old kids were lying about their age and going to combat, and if we arn't careful we may see those days again. But they arn't here yet, and bjj students arn't recruits anyway so try to remember that. Its hard sometimes and may even be the wrong path in a few years, who knows. But it is the path society is on right now, and it might work, again who knows.