Bigger training partners

What's crackin?! I know this is a thread that's likely to have been posted before but I think as the system grows, a more updated answer might help a bit better. I'm just under the 70kg mark and I can submit bigger opponents but it just takes a lot longer if a 100kg dude can get on top of me. I try avoid even having them in my guard, I'll use butterfly guard and z guard to make space but other than that, if I don't have his back, side or mount, abort mission, get the fuck out of there. It's also hard enough locking up triangles but definitely possible but some of the bigger guys who sweat more can sometimes slip right out (although my sexy new 10th planet tights helped prevent that a bit last night)

I was just wondering what kind of positions and techniques some of the smaller guys like myself like to use to keep the bigger guys under control?

Good well thought out counters to escapes from top position, tire them out..
And really good sweeps, reversals, and escapes of your own.

They have to carry their own weight as well, and if not extremely athletic, they are prone to tiring out from bottom, exposing subs. Also; Fast aggressive leglocks and good framing to keep them down worked for me a couple of times.

The guys I sparred around 12 years ago that were heavy were 120 and 135 kg's, I weighed 65.
...... Mostly I would just get smashed, lol..! :') They were world class strongmen btw. That's cool day one, every day that passes and every technique they pick up after that makes it less cool to be a 65 kg man, hahaha!

That Marcelo Garcia guy seems to own big guys, not that I have the technical expertise to explain to you why.

there's some technique that fakes a butterfly sweep but transitions into leglocks that is supposed to be good against big guys, but I never drilled it, can't remember what's it called.

Mind you, I'm not even training right now and I haven't won a single submission match, but there's competent people that will chime in and that knows exactly how to deal with big opponents. All I know is that playing rodeo with good top control, good escapes, and leglocks sometimes worked for me.

This question came up at Denny's London seminar. If my memory serves me correctly I think he said he plays open guard and butterfly against big dudes.

I like to go lockdown and stretch the big guys out. Maybe it's just the guys I'm training with but they seem to feel less comfortable in the lockdown than when I roll with smaller guys. But yeah, I like to pull quarter, get the lockdown and immediately get perfect double unders. Also, I like butterfly. My open guard is really poor.

That said, I still get smashed regularly by higher level big guys, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

Well, from the other side of things: as a bigger guy I find a good butterfly and open guard player most difficult to deal with. Things like Lockdown etc, generally don't phase me anymore than they would anyone else, I would much rather someone played a lockdown game rather than butterflys.

I'm happy when people pull guard or want to play a closed guard game as I can smash and slice through quite happily.

I am a small guy and always roll bigger guys. I find I have the best percentages if I play bottom half lockdown to electric series, then start attacking their neck from top. I find if I stay in the same orientation as them, they can muscle me around and sweep me over, but if I attack from side (Darces) or go FHL position and stay there to attack the turtle with anaconda's, JNT/PNT,guillotines, etc, I have an easier time keeping their posture down because they are always busy having to defend their neck with hands so they can't base as well to burst up and out.
Just my own experience.
The big guys that have experience just simply surpass my technique with theirs and also have the advantage of brute strength, so what I am talking about are bigger guys that are around my level of skill.

I havnt tried open guard yet, my head coach is a sambo master so open guard can be dangerous to play but I'll try find a few good techniques that suit me! Thanks for all the help! Straight leg locks are one of my favourite type of subs but I'm having some problems with my forearms at the moment and it's fairly painful to lock in them leg locks (using the technique dean lister uses which I found works best for me). I've only recently started using guillotines, marcelotines, PNTs and such so it'll take some time to get grips and positioning down but I've had a lot of success with the pretzel grip guillotine so I'll keep drilling. I've a few videos to be uploaded of some rolling soon too (including the battle with the big guy last night when I eventually caught him in a sneaky belly down armbar)

Yeah I need to try that pretzel grip. My arm-in guillotine percentages are very low.

Top crucifex from judo side control a'la Zog's series from TWIR, but only if I can't hit the truck/back. Marcelotines and n/s if they present themselves.

Also, something that I was working on was not conceding top position with bigger and more experienced guys. If I'm on my back, create space and get to my knees to try a reversal or just stand up to either wrestle or work some standing guard passes or rolling kimuras.

I'm a big guy and more often than not, my training partners are smaller than me. What the best guys use to keep me "under control" is not to keep me under control. It's more about surfing. Maintain your balance. Ride the wave. Wait for them to move. And you move constantly. Big guys tire faster at fast paces. So a guy like Josh Santana from 10th planet Roc would give me fits because he would move constantly. If you try to control, you'll get out muscled. You want to move a bunch and look for openings and mistakes.

Knee on belly.

Twister Side.

As far as guards, it's smartest to use guards that constantly threaten their base.

Various deep half guards are money.

X guard and single leg X.


Bigger guys tend to be top heavy so recovering balance is not as easy for us as it is for a 155'er. It's wise to play guards that use your whole body versus one leg. Usually a small guy's whole body strenght is stronger than a big guy's one leg strength. Threaten balance and you should be able to sweep, reverse, or escape bottom.

I run around 250. When I lose to lighter guys, it's usually because they have a great butterfly, great escapes, they keep moving, and they get tired a long time after I do.

If you must rest, make sure it's in a position where he can't lay his weight on you. That's one reason I love deep half guard. In deep half you only carry the weight of his leg. Butterfly is great against big guys, too.

From top, traditional side control is really tough. They'll often try to bench press you across the room. I like knee on belly against big dudes. They hate that pressure and they will often make a mistake more quickly than a little guy will. Plus knee ok belly offers me the mobility to be able to spin to the back quickly. And no matter how big they are, the back is where it's at. Everybody chokes the same. :)

You're on the right track. You need to use guards that keep the distance. De La Riva, Reverse De La Riva, knee shield, and even spider guard as a defensive position to get to other guards while keeping the distance. Always leg pummel, foot on the bicep, foot on the hip, frame with your hands. I know this is a 10P forum but I would never use lockdown or any closed guard or traditional half guard on big guys. The worst thing you can do is close the distance on a big guy and have his weight on you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

And no matter how big they are, the back is where it's at. Everybody chokes the same. :)

---

Tell that to the potato monster I train with that I guarantee you'll see on metamoris in a few years. Natural vegetarian since birth and he survives on potatoes and cheese pizza and we all find him very hard to choke, the dude defies science. Hahahaha

Another big guy opinion... Take it for what it is.
I love when MOST smaller guys play half guard. There are exceptions and those are usually ones who play deep half or knee shield very well, but I'd say... 85 percent of the time if a guy under competition purple pulls half guard on me, I can follow the simple flatten them out, smash, pass formula.
Not saying don't play half, it's not bad per say, it just seems it's a high percentage guard for me. Same with closed guard. Anything where your going to willingly accept or risk accepting my weight on top of you.

Usually your going to have a speed and possibly conditioning advantage. Use that.
Stay on top as much as humanly possible. From the bottom I would def go for and guard that maintains distance. In half just make sure you don't go flat. Some other details would depend on your body type.

Lastly, on leg locks... I love leglocks, I'm one of the guys that goes for the most leglocks at both gyms... But, if your going to go for leglocks from the bottom against a bigger guy... Be careful. Position is worth so much against a bigger opponent. Even though I am myself big, when I'm fighting strong light heavy and heavyweights I am VERY hesitant to drop for a leglock unless I am sure I've got it.

Of course, this question was about training partners not completion, so it's always good to try. Just be aware.

Great help from everyone who posted on this thread, rolling later on after work so I'll try some of this stuff out!

Armdrags, open, butterfly. Much of which has already been mentioned. The main thing for me is realizing the significance of not allowing them to pass and settle in before it happens. Constant frames and shrimping. And maybe not taking the early sub in lue of keeping a good position that is gained to not have to deal with them a 2nd time. Mobility on top. Constant transitioning to match their attempted escapes. Also, know the positions you get big boyed in and plan accordingly.

Personally because big guys seem to like to drive forward (in my experience) I use butterfly guard and Marcelo's got a two on one wrist / elbow control sweep where you bait them by driving forward and when they push back use an arm drag to take the back, it's my go to sweep

The human body is built for things in front of it. The eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and limbs all point forward. By being behind someone you take away all of those advantages. It doesn't matter how big the guy is if he can't see you or reach you, all that matters now is his defense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sam Davis

The human body is built for things in front of it. The eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and limbs all point forward. By being behind someone you take away all of those advantages. It doesn't matter how big the guy is if he can't see you or reach you, all that matters now is his defense.

---

Think about this: when you are in a dark alley way what scares you more, a person walking towards you or a person walking behind you? It's in our instincts to fear getting our back taken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chad Clark

Top crucifex from judo side control a'la Zog's series from TWIR, but only if I can't hit the truck/back. Marcelotines and n/s if they present themselves.

Also, something that I was working on was not conceding top position with bigger and more experienced guys. If I'm on my back, create space and get to my knees to try a reversal or just stand up to either wrestle or work some standing guard passes or rolling kimuras.

---

This is exactly how Chad controls me lol. There's also a 3 stripe deep blue belt that completely controls me via butterfly hooks, lifts, and constant threats to get under my hips. He's a fast 147. The purples I've had the opportunity to work with have all followed the same outline as all those above and quite successfully.

Everyone approaches that differently..depends on just how big they are. My biggest piece of advice would be..learn how to move your body very well and roll with every bigger person you can get your hands on.

I am 185. My general rule is that, I don't pull full guard on opponents that are bigger than me. Instead I try to get to quarter-guard and work from lockdown. I found that having someone over 200 pounds in my guard is very tiring, I have been tapped from big guys just smothering me, not allowing me to recover and catch my breath.

You guys gotta start speaking in pounds... this "kilo's" stuff makes the feel like a drug lord.

I use the lockdown on everyone no matter how big. If they are too strong to sweep I use the lockdown to get to rubber guard. If I can't sweep or can't get to rubber guard then he's just too big, too strong, too good for me :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo

I use the lockdown on everyone no matter how big. If they are too strong to sweep I use the lockdown to get to rubber guard. If I can't sweep or can't get to rubber guard then he's just too big, too strong, too good for me :)

---

My goal is usually to either get the lockdown, mini stomp them sum bitches and work to RG but the dude I train with who was the reason behind me posting this thread is a big round guy, hard to even get legs wrapped around his 266 pound body but I suppose if I can master the rubber guard on him, I can do it on anyone! haha

I would say different stuff works for everyone. I get my hands on every big guy I can. Generally I try to sweep and get on top. Not always the case. But the more you roll with bigger opponents, the easier it gets and the better you understand how to move.

Yeah I've noticed that a lot lately. I've been rolling with all the bigger guys I could just cause I find more creative ways to move around them that way. Constant movement and a few crazy rolls with the help of the caccoon does the trick for me!