Whizzers and Cobra Chokes From Guard

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08-07-2014, 07:34 PM
Ross Davidson

Whizzers and Cobra Chokes From Guard

So tonight I had the pleasure of rolling with a brand new guy who claimed to be a wrestler. After getting to dog fight, his claim was validated. As soon as I got to my knees to try and sweep, he slapped on the strongest whizzer I've ever encountered. Now, I know the limp arm is a good option here, but I was so caught off guard by it, I didn't really know what to do. So, first question, to have options, what are some good counters to a strong whizzer, aside from the limp arm?

Second, later on in the roll I had swept him and got Sgt Slaughter control. I sunk in the cobra choke, but I guess I wasn't based right and he was able to power me over. I still had the choke in, but I was in guard. Couldn't finish it. Second question: any Sgt Slaughter players know how to finish the cobra choke from guard? I'd hate to have to release it if I get swept.
08-07-2014, 07:59 PM
Chris Herzog

It's pretty tough to finish from the guard, not impossible but it can be a battle. Try straightening the arm that controls the wrist, as you shear your other elbow/forearm to the side of the carotid, keep your hand on the straight arm to lever it.

or

When you get rolled and stacked, switch to a deep hook then toss to spider web ;)
08-08-2014, 05:30 AM
Ross Davidson

Thanks, Zog!
08-08-2014, 06:33 AM
David Rosado

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Davidson

So tonight I had the pleasure of rolling with a brand new guy who claimed to be a wrestler. After getting to dog fight, his claim was validated. As soon as I got to my knees to try and sweep, he slapped on the strongest whizzer I've ever encountered. Now, I know the limp arm is a good option here, but I was so caught off guard by it, I didn't really know what to do. So, first question, to have options, what are some good counters to a strong whizzer, aside from the limp arm?

Second, later on in the roll I had swept him and got Sgt Slaughter control. I sunk in the cobra choke, but I guess I wasn't based right and he was able to power me over. I still had the choke in, but I was in guard. Couldn't finish it. Second question: any Sgt Slaughter players know how to finish the cobra choke from guard? I'd hate to have to release it if I get swept.

I'm a big fan of the mechanic sweep when I can't bowl a guy over in dogfight. If done right, even a HW will feel light as a feather as you take them back.
08-08-2014, 06:39 AM
Chris Herzog

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Rosado

I'm a big fan of the mechanic sweep when I can't bowl a guy over in dogfight. If done right, even a HW will feel light as a feather as you take them back.

He's in Dog Fight, not 1/2 Guard, mechanic is from 1/2. Twist back/plan b from prefect dogfight is a great option as well vs strong whizzer/pressure from dog fight. I think that's what Dave was referring too.
08-08-2014, 07:18 AM
David Rosado

Yeah that's what I meant. Alder Hampel has a good video on youtube breaking it down.
08-08-2014, 08:08 AM
bobby rivers

Yep. Twist back/plan b, limp arm, and powder keg.

If he's whizzering that hard he's open somewhere. Worse case scenario is full guard but I would def focus on the sweep or positional progression. Wrestlers keep your technique honest.
08-08-2014, 09:16 AM
Ross Davidson

I dunno it was weird. Didn't feel like I could twist back plan b. He kinda whizzered down really hard while pulling me forward and towards him at the same time. I almost collapsed back on my hip from the technique and power.
08-08-2014, 10:08 AM
Chris Herzog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Davidson

I dunno it was weird. Didn't feel like I could twist back plan b. He kinda whizzered down really hard while pulling me forward and towards him at the same time. I almost collapsed back on my hip from the technique and power.

Then you are doing it wrong, because that's exactly what you want him to do.
08-08-2014, 10:27 AM
Ross Davidson

I've always been under the impression that the twist back plan b required them to pressure into me rather than pulling in the other direction :/
08-08-2014, 10:45 AM
Chris Herzog

"Whizzering down" implies he is pushing into you, as most people push down to the mat with a whizzer.
08-08-2014, 10:50 AM
Ross Davidson

Ah ok. Well I guess he wasn't whizzering down then. Definitely was a powerful whizzer though that really challenged my posture. But he was indeed pulling forward (direction my head was pointing) and away from me.
08-08-2014, 11:08 AM
Chris Herzog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Davidson

Ah ok. Well I guess he wasn't whizzering down then. Definitely was a powerful whizzer though that really challenged my posture. But he was indeed pulling forward (direction my head was pointing) and away from me.

Try the Drowning Jiu from there.
08-08-2014, 11:10 AM
Sean James

Not sure if you can hit this with his strong wizzer but.. When I get to dog fight and get stuck I go for the back. Not sure what it's called but, I take the arm that is being wizzd and put The back of my hand on his temple. I then connect my hands with an S-grip over his head. I then have a neck crank that forces him into taking out the wizzer and giving me his back.

P.s. What is the name for this transition to the back?
08-08-2014, 11:39 AM
Ross Davidson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Try the Drowning Jiu from there.

I've seen it but can't remember the exact move. I'll have to look it up. Thanks!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean James

Not sure if you can hit this with his strong wizzer but.. When I get to dog fight and get stuck I go for the back. Not sure what it's called but, I take the arm that is being wizzd and put The back of my hand on his temple. I then connect my hands with an S-grip over his head. I then have a neck crank that forces him into taking out the wizzer and giving me his back.

P.s. What is the name for this transition to the back?

Do you put your arm around his head or over his near side shoulder when going to touch his temple?
08-08-2014, 11:40 AM
Ross Davidson

Ah ok never mind I think I know what you're saying now
08-08-2014, 12:49 PM
bobby rivers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean James

Not sure if you can hit this with his strong wizzer but.. When I get to dog fight and get stuck I go for the back. Not sure what it's called but, I take the arm that is being wizzd and put The back of my hand on his temple. I then connect my hands with an S-grip over his head. I then have a neck crank that forces him into taking out the wizzer and giving me his back.

P.s. What is the name for this transition to the back?

The Mookie.

The powder keg is also loaded to go from the pressure you described Ross. But generally if an overhook is beating your unders, you need to connect your core and align your skeleton for more leverage. Once you're up you can post an arm and leg as long as you keep his leg trapped and head tight. My wrestling arose from and greatly increased with knowledge of the dogfight.
08-08-2014, 02:15 PM
Ross Davidson

So are you saying that I should use the boa more?
08-08-2014, 05:48 PM
KrisGallagher

For what it's worth,I love hitting the cobra from Prison Guard. As Zog said,if you can't finish,you've got the swim move right there
08-12-2014, 07:01 AM
bobby rivers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Davidson

So are you saying that I should use the boa more?

Chael used this exact whizzer on Galvao. Galvao tried a version of plan b and was whizzered onto his face. What eventually won the position was when Galvao reconnected his bodylock, aligned his body, and drove through Chael's whizzer.

I like the boa because you never unconnect. Safety+leverage.
08-15-2014, 08:46 PM
Aaron Gustaveson

have drowning jiu and drowning wizard ever been on MTS or just in Mastering the Rubber Guard?