I loved this fight. I really enjoyed watching Brendan Schaub. Then everyone had a cry at the end. I thought Schaub fought beautifully. Just not enough time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jel2u2gQnso
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I loved this fight. I really enjoyed watching Brendan Schaub. Then everyone had a cry at the end. I thought Schaub fought beautifully. Just not enough time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jel2u2gQnso
Wasn't the most entertaining match to watch but Schaub shut down Cyborgs game.
EDIT:
By shut down, I really meant evaded.
Plus that Metamoris was point based, as Rener said he didnt want to walk into the bear trap.
It was terrible to watch.
It was garbage, and that's why Schaub will never be back in Metamoris. Failing to engage is not a strategy, its a means of running away. Schaub had no intentions of trying to beat cyborg he just didn't want to get tapped.
Not enough time for what? More running?
Hahahaha, this is brilliant. Schaubs a funny dude to listen to on JRE sometimes but when it comes to fighting, his "strategies" aren't as strategic as he thinks they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurzy
Yeah, you put it better than I could have. Exactly my thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
"beautifully"
lol
I know, that picture is worth more than a thousand words for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Kavanagh
Gracie Academy should be at least a little embarrassed by this match. A brown belt running away.... I'm not a fan of that. I'm a blue belt, and I would engage Cyborg on the ground. I would obviously be outclassed, but I wouldn't run away from the ground in a jiu jitsu match!
"Don't Schaub me Bro"
It's kinda funny too cuz Ryron was criticizing Jeff Glover for turning around on Baret Yoshida but him and Rener praised Shaub for his performance and said it was a good strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranlers
That's f'n hilarious. In all honesty though, I would have been running from Cyborg too, but you'd see shit running down my leg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurzy
Yes it was such a great strategy they've had him back every show sinceQuote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Herrera
It was a perfect example of how not to win a match.
Haha didn't even think of that. It'd be great if they could keep their stories straight. Damn son. That's hilarious. Glover puts on a great active non stop action match, get criticised for being too playful. Schaub avoids a grappling match for 20 minutes.....20 MINUTES....great strategy. LMAO. These guys are insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Herrera
My point was, I really enjoyed it, while clearly no one else did. I watched it straight after listening to Rickson. He talked about how, with enough time, he could deal with anyone. I had never thought about what Gracie Jiu Jitsu really is, and when I watched watched it I felt like I was seeing it as Rickson described it. Look how angry he made Cyborg.
I just spent a week watching every piece of footage about the Gracies I could find on the internet, and to me it looked like Schaub was just testing him the whole fight, shoving him and poking him and seeing how he reacted.
As far as I can see, that is the only realistic way to beat someone way better than you. Ruin their plan till they get pissed off and start doing dumb shit.
And it was working. He got him cyborg abandon his attack and try something else. I think if there was more time, Schaub would have stayed calm and fresh and learned more and more about Cyborg, while Cyborg eventually just completely lost his rag.
In my (very humble) opinion, if it was a real fight, Schaubs approach was the only chance he had. He likely knew, like everyone else did, if he dived into Cyborgs guard it was over. I guess as a Muay Thai convert seeing someone poke, prod and evade a better fighter is normal.
There was nothing stopping Cyborg, at any point, from getting up and taking Shaub down. I left thinking Cyborgs game was one dimensional and if Schaub would not play it he had nothing.
Just to add, I'm not trolling here. I have run forums for over a decade (and I'm pretty over it). No content, no forum. A forum manager needs on topic, interesting discussions and lots of them, so I am just trying to help, not argue with any of my Jiu Jitsu superiors.
Maybe I see BJJ in a different way, but what you see at metamoris is not fight based jiu jitsu. That's not the context. It's about grappling with the purpose of getting a submission. Your point about if it were a real fight is irrelevant. Pure grappling matches are not simulations of real fights. This is why tons of black belts get whooped in MMA. Grappling is about positional control and submissions. If I wanted fight relevant jiu jitsu, I'd watch MMA because then you can apply grappling to a fight context. But I didn't. I paid to watch good grappling, not some philosophic display about what jiu jitsu means to him. He shouldn't have gotten into the match if he didn't think he could win. He shoudln't have signed up if his intention was to run.
We're not stupid. I saw what Eddie Alvarez and Gil Melendez did to Aoki. There are tons of MMA matches that already prove that defensive jiu jitsu works. Plenty of examples of how to deal with the better jiu jitsu guy. We did not need Schaub's dumb ass to contribute in the most boring way possible. Did he really need to accept a match and waste 20 minutes of life? Hell no.
Here's another problem. This what if scenario gracies keep bringing up. What if there was more time? That's also irrelevant because when he signed the contract he knew that the match was for 20 minutes. So you train to finish the fight within 20 minutes. You don't train to tire the guy out for 20 minutes then hope he's tired and hope you get the judges nod for being less tired. I don't care about, what if there was more time. Considering how fresh they were, I'd say the fight would keep being boring. Maybe Cyborg would just let him get side control to finally get him to engage. Schaub would stand up and repeat the same thing for another 20 minutes. And then Cyborg would still tap him because he's better than Schaub.
Sorry man, if you're looking for fight simulation, watch MMA. If you're looking for BJJ, don't watch Schaub. It was a great strategy to annoy the piss out of 99% of the BJJ community, alienate fans, and cause Metamoris to have investor relation problems.
The match is inexcusable. Maybe because you're a muay thai guy you don't quite get how BJJ works. What Schaub was doing was not poking and prodding. It was more like throwing feints for 20 minutes straight while backpedaling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-zlmHlRsGAQuote:
Originally Posted by Tim Elliott
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...28041442_n.jpg
Oh yeah the Gracie Filter or Helio Filter
Brian Ortega is a Jiu Jitsu black belt who trains and instructs at the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy under Rorion Gracie, and his sons Ryron, Rener, and Ralek Gracie in Torrance, California. He recently made his UFC debut winning by submission vs Michael De La Torre.
According to California State Athletic Commission executive director Andy Foster, who confirmed the news to FOX Sports on Friday, Ortega tested positive for the anabolic steroid drostanolone and he has been suspended for nine months, fined $2500 and will have his win overturned to a no contest.
Ortega failed his pre-fight urine test, which was administered by a World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) accredited lab in California.
Sherdog.com was the first to report the results.
Ortega has 30 days to file an appeal.
Ortega’s camp has not made a public statement yet on whether or not they will file an appeal with the commission over the drug test result.
I just watched that match one more to give Schaub a benefit of the doubt. No. Hell no. He didn't do shit in that fight. Didn't try to pass. Didn't try to submit. Just ran away for 20 minutes. Maybe he was training for half marathon?? I don't know. What I know is that this match was hella boring to watch, and it wasn't because of Syborg. Schaub should be ashamed of himself. Just my humble, blue belt, opinion.
I have never been a grappling fan. Watching grappling for entertainment is new to me. I am essentially saying, that fight seemed to really piss the BJJ crowd off, where as I loved it.
It did not alienate this fan. I watch striking normally. I follow Thai Muay Thai. I find Geof Glover un-watchable from an entertainment point of view.
Maybe if the BJJ crowd wants to pull people in from other disciplines and get them to watch metamorius, they should consider that fight fans come to see fights. That was a fight to me, and I really enjoyed Schaubs tactics.
If you invite MMA fighters to grapple, then boo the tactics, how are you going to convert fight fans to grappling fans?
Non grappling educated fans are only going to try and understand the tactics and strategy until they pick up the technique. BJJ people forget until you know a few things, grappling is boring to watch.
I could see what happened, it is why I posted the thread. That fight, to the least educated viewers, was more interesting than a lot of the high level matches. If you had no concept of grappling technique, the interaction between the fighters was fun to watch.
Its a legit tactic. I keep getting told off for clinching at the gym I roll at. "don't pull them onto you, make space and move". Which is great, but they are waaay better than me, and beat me to any open space 10 times out of 10. I don't get the logic of deliberately losing just because it is more exciting. This is a points based, sport attitude to me.
If its not related to real fighting, why should I watch it, as a fight fan? I thought the point of Metamorius was to bring Jiu Jitsu back to real fighting? Submissions, not points? How was Schaub ever going to submit Cyborg by diving into one of the deadliest guards in the world?
Again, I find point based Jiu Jitsu un-watchable, while Metamorius is epic.
The point I am trying to make, is that I sit down with my mates and break down Muay Thai fights, and Schaub/Cyborg was a very accessible fight for us. We could enjoy discussing it while we watched it, with our existing way of looking at fights.
The whole point of it, was it was a fan bridging fight. It bridged this fan well. BJJ crowd, if they want to expand their viewer base, maybe should be more careful of what they boo.
If you want to bring in people who don't think like you and introduce them to paying to watch your sport, be more careful about what you criticise. The ones you hate may well be the very fights you need. It was a very accessible fight for MMA and fight fans and if the crowd had been more positive it would have served its purpose.
Yes it annoyed the hell out of Cyborg and every BJJ person there. That is exactly what I would do if you asked me to get in the ring with Cyborg. What else could I do? I'm dead if he touches me, but I'm hardly going to go in with the intention of that happening am I?
What's wrong is this isnt an 'untimed match' it is a 20min match, trying to attract viewers to a new format of watching BJJ.
Schaub doing that was disrespectful to the promoters and audience.
Without an audience you don't have professional athletes, like it or not you have to entertain them in some way.
I get that. I just find different people find different things entertaining. To my mind all the disrespect was towards Schaub. Tons of it. This is actually what BJJ is most famous for outside BJJ. Failing to respect others and other disciplines. Before that fight I hated Gracie Jiu Jitsu because I have been on the receiving end in the past. Rude brazillian black belts without fight records treating others with contempt.
Everyone wanted to see Schaub in Cyborgs insane guard. I just don't understand why no-one gets it was the last thing Schaub wanted to see? If you just want to see techniques without strategy, is that not called WWF?
The way Schaub was treated was probably the most off putting thing in the whole metamorius series. Hes a brown belt UFC fighter who forced the best grappler in the world to adopt an alternative fight plan, I practically cheered when Cyborg gave up his tornado guard and pulled full guard. MASSIVE win.
Its what makes point fighting so tedious. What is considered a win is pre-determined, where as in open fighting, anything that improves your chances of a finish, is a win. Strategy is completely open.
To anyone who was not involved in the back story, as in any new fan, its 20 minutes of Cyborg lying on his back, complaining Schaub wont join in the one thing he knows how to do. Cyborg has one guard position he wants an no means to get it. To a broader audience, Schaubs conduct seemed in no way disrespectful. Hardly on Schaub.
Sure, Cyborg is amazing, but I never saw any sign of it in that fight. I saw his terrifying guard completely nullified. How is that not cool to watch?
To a non BJJ person, it was ugly. A lot of un-warranted disrespect towards Schaub, because I did not get he was doing something wrong. I doubt any of the other non-BJJ people got it either, so it just made the crowd look like arseholes.
I have sat in an MMA night where the promoter added about 20 boring grappling matches to the undercard. The change overs were super slow, the fights were uneventful and hard to see and the night dragged on and on. Imagine a fight night where people came to see MMA and had to watch literally 5 hours of grappling before the fights they came for started.
Not a single drunken MMA or Muay Thai fan booed a grappling fight. People were furious, they were complaining endlessly, but they showed every fighter respect.
JJ is without a doubt, the most fun, healthy rewarding thing in the universe. I think you need stuff like booing a guy who jumped on the mats with a world champion to keep it as unpopular as it is.
The goal of Jiu Jitsu and Submission Grappling is to submit your opponent, Schaub ran from that goal and made absolutely zero progress towards a submission, period. HE disrespected the sport and made a mockery of it, that's what people are pissed.
You find Jeff Glover unwatchable from entertainment point of view??? Really?? He is by far my favorite grappler to watch. His style is hella entertaining and he is always looking for submission. What's not to like??
Its my point. People watch fights in different ways, and view things in different ways. There are many aspects to martial arts. Some people are interested in technique, some people are interested in strategy, some people just follow the personalities. My missus loves watching Eddie fight because she likes bunnies.
Without offending anyone (unlikely) people with a history of tournament Jiu Jitsu tend to be narrow minded about strategy. Rules limit strategy. Points for specific things limit strategy. Time changes strategy.
I thought this was actually the point of Metamorius, and the stuff Eddie has been doing, and Rickson was talking about. Creating more practical Jiu Jitsu. If Schaub is there to put on a performance, I am not interested. Its just one step away from staged wrestling.
If I had to fight Chris Herzog, my priority for at least 18 of the 20 minutes would be to not let him so much as touch me, and to make him as annoyed and frustrated as I possibly could. Ruin whatever plan he might have had. Learn as much as I possibly could about how he moves, and what he wants me to do.
I am not for a second, suggesting this would work, or be fun to watch. What I am saying, is, can anyone suggest a better strategy? How is doing anything other than surviving and learning, moving towards a submission? But it should be fairly obvious, as it is an immense mis-match, that I treat him with utmost respect. I would show him immense respect, by acknowledging even touching him is suicidal.
Does no one recognise this as respect? What I saw was a real fighter with a brown belt who does not specialise in Jiu Jitsu showing the appropriate amount of respect towards the best in the world. Its not like it is a game at Metamorius, people are "tapping to snap" in some of those fights.
Schaubs there to move towards his own submission, as best he can. He is not supposed to move towards Cyborgs submission. I don't want to see someone do something moronic on purpose.
I never rolled competition Jiu Jitsu. Some BJJ guys who were training in Brazil used our mats, and had a copy of the Twister. When they left we bought Eddies books and DVDs and grappled. We never had a timer, we never knew about how the points system worked, and we always fought full contact. Its more fun to me with no time limit. More strategy. If you suck at finishing your guillotine but you can't turn it down, I'm going to gasp and gurgil and set up your guilotine for you, till you gas. Then you are going to go home and improve your guilotine so I can't use it against you, and next time I try that trick I get my head ripped off.
Different. Fun. One of the coolest aspect of grappling is you can simulate all kinds of interesting scenarios, without anyone getting killed. I guess I find that fascinating, and not everyone does.
No you wouldn't. I'm not one dimensional, I'd throw you on your head, then submit you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Elliott
That being said, you'd be missing the entire spirit of competition by fleeing. It most competitions you would be DQed for avoiding and stalling. Something that Metamoris needs to rectify to avoid future disgraceful "tactics" similar to those displayed by Schaub.
Haha, Preach Zog!
Americans have so much advertising conditioning their attention spans are like goldfish. In the UK people will pack a venue to watch pool in silence.
I feel run away might be a little strong. Fawning whitebelt I surely am, but I am one of those martial arts converts from another sport, and I have my own training history. I did the dirtiest smelliest hardest manual competitive labouring jobs around at the same time, and I still do and set shift tonnage records comfortably, throwing sheep skins in a Russian chop 6 days a week.
You have likely never clinched with someone with this unique history in America, because as far as I know, the fastest Mexican rower on record was named Patrick.
I just have to hold off till I start sweating and when the smell of rendered animal parts starts coming out through my pores and you will tap for sure.
lol if you think I've only clinched and thrown Americans on their heads, you have homework to do. Sheep don't fight back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Elliott
If you were a Kiwi you would properly appreciate the full combat potential of a sheep. A sheep has the best long range flying headbut around. Getting into a sheep pen as a child is like wearing the wrong jersey to an English football match.
Most rural Kiwis have been grappling with sheep their whole lives. I don't need gi training, my grip is fine.
Lol...wtf is this dude talking about?
Just like the Gracies never heard of Eskrima, you guys have never heard of New Zelanders. That's quite common in the US I think. People assume we are an island off Australia where everyone has huge decks.
Here is a little kiwi martial arts history for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrS7lSfqEO4
Part of your argument is about an MMA guy avoiding the BJJ skills of a BJJ guy, which would make sense if they were fighting in a cage; but not if they are doing a grappling competition. Schaub signed up to grapple against Cyborg and he basically just done the 5 D's of Dodgeball. The recent Sonnen v Galvao match is a much better example of an MMA guy against a BJJ guy. Although Sonnen is a wrestler, he hasn't wrestled competitively in a long, long time and has been training solely for MMA, just like Schaub, who has been a professional athlete for years but now focuses on MMA.
Nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Elliott
* Snooker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Elliott
Serious bunch this 10th Planet crowd.
You lost me at "I find Geof Glover un-watchable from an entertainment point of view."
You might be on the wrong forum. Might wanna look around for some TMA forums or something.