Two positions I'm working on, please check them...

Hey 10th planet guys,
We www.Frota-Team.ch are still in the certification process for becoming a full 10th planet jiu jitsu Moon.
Meanwhile we are drilling positions, and here are two of them we working on, please check them and post your Feedback:

First: An Armdrag -janpanese neck tie position from the Reversed De La Riva:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9yv...mTyyFfjYZEMNhQ

Second: An Armdrag (opponent counters with a underhook knee slice pass) to lockdown half to electric chair:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUSh...mTyyFfjYZEMNhQ

whish everybody a nice day and keep on drilling!

cheers
stefan

You have them set as "Private"!

sorry, should be fixed now..
Please try again.

I don't think that's a Japanese neck tie. What is the guy tapping to?

The "arm drag" you used is literally giving the guy the underhook and there is nothing preventing him from slicing his knee through. Even if you get a guy to fall forward off balanced, a quick second is all it would take for them to recover balance and posture. Now they have a free underhook that you gifted them and nothing stopping their knee from slicing through. You're "arm drag"ing them into passing your guard. And I still don't see what you're getting the tap with. That's a vice grip not a Japanese neck tie. Also, when you arm drag, the arm should be on the other side so you expose their back, not to give them a free underhook.

Sorry for going in on you.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

The "arm drag" you used is literally giving the guy the underhook and there is nothing preventing him from slicing his knee through. Even if you get a guy to fall forward off balanced, a quick second is all it would take for them to recover balance and posture. Now they have a free underhook that you gifted them and nothing stopping their knee from slicing through. You're "arm drag"ing them into passing your guard. And I still don't see what you're getting the tap with. That's a vice grip not a Japanese neck tie. Also, when you arm drag, the arm should be on the other side so you expose their back, not to give them a free underhook.

Sorry for going in on you.

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His underhook is not in Place, I twisted his wrist outside.. My partner is tapping because the japanese neck tie, maybe you should take a closer look and then you see the neck crank...

The second video has me asking questions too. If the guy's knee is up and he's ready to knee slice, what's causing him to put his knee down? You're giving them a free underhook again. Idk man, maybe it's because the last school I trained at was full of guys who had killer knee slices and could do it in their sleep. I imagine myself trying this on them and all I can think of is that I'm literally pulling them into passing my guard. Like, oh hey here's this free underhook and some forward momentum for you.

I'll let someone else give a second opinion. But I know what a Japanese necktie is. That's a vice grip. I'm trying to figure out what is preventing an escape. Without your chest on the back if his head it seems like he can just fall to his side to get rid of the forearm on the back of his head. And I still don't see how you're not giving up the underhook.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

The second video has me asking questions too. If the guy's knee is up and he's ready to knee slice, what's causing him to put his knee down? You're giving them a free underhook again. Idk man, maybe it's because the last school I trained at was full of guys who had killer knee slices and could do it in their sleep. I imagine myself trying this on them and all I can think of is that I'm literally pulling them into passing my guard. Like, oh hey here's this free underhook and some forward momentum for you.

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Exactly my partner is trying to underhook and knee slice pass as a counter to my arm drag attempt. That's why I overhook and put the lockdown in to stretch his leg out and setup the electric chair..
What prevents him of knee slice pass is the kick while arm draggin - this brings him out of balance, let him falling forward and his weight is not on the knee to slice anymore. Our school has lots of good knee slice guys and kicking them forward out of the reversed dela riva prevents them to knee slice bc of their instability after the kick..try it you will see it works fine.

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

I'll let someone else give a second opinion. But I know what a Japanese necktie is. That's a vice grip. I'm trying to figure out what is preventing an escape. Without your chest on the back if his head it seems like he can just fall to his side to get rid of the forearm on the back of his head. And I still don't see how you're not giving up the underhook.

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If he falls on the side he will give me the sweep.. Here is an other japanese neck tie example.. http://youtu.be/G2DGnvi-uxU

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Originally Posted by David Rosado

I'll let someone else give a second opinion. But I know what a Japanese necktie is. That's a vice grip. I'm trying to figure out what is preventing an escape. Without your chest on the back if his head it seems like he can just fall to his side to get rid of the forearm on the back of his head. And I still don't see how you're not giving up the underhook.

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..and sorry but I don't know what a vice grip is. Keep in mind there are several varations of japanese neck ties, just like that there are several guillotine variations and armbar variations etc. this position here I learned from my Professor Augusto Frota, 2nd degree Black Belt under Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira, here is our website: www.frota-team.ch

The vice grip is the grip you're using. It's the same grip you use to force someone down with before applying a darce, it's called a three quarter nelson in wrestling. I think David isn't seeing the neck tie because you aren't finishing on your side and using your body more to crank the neck instead of just your vice grip. And, I agree with David on the underhook, on the second video. Any time you're in any kind of half guard you're arm should never let that underhook get taken like that, plus it's a real battle to get that underhook of yours back, you can't just swim it through like that and if you do swim through you risk getting trapped in a shoulder compression or a wrist lock, depending how your hand gets trapped.

Hey I am a huge fan of arm drags...use them from any position but Ill be honest here and say I'm not really getting either of these techniques. In the both vids you are arm dragging your opponent into your armpit and giving him an underhook? Typically arm drags would be pulling the arm across the body exposing the back. In the first vid even if you were to arm drag him across and then use the vicegrip this would be a very difficult submissions to pull off because there is nothing cutting off his right corotid. I do not consider what you are doing in the first video a japanese necktie at all. Ive had full on Marces locked up and sometime cant finish let alone only using the vice grip. I know its possible to get a tap but in my opinion its very very low percentage. In the second vid it looks like all you are doing is arm dragging him into an underhook (giving him an underhook) and then doing a regular electric chair. Sorry man...Im just not getting what your trying to show here at all.

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

Hey I am a huge fan of arm drags...use them from any position but Ill be honest here and say I'm not really getting either of these techniques. In the both vids you are arm dragging your opponent into your armpit and giving him an underhook? Typically arm drags would be pulling the arm across the body exposing the back. In the first vid even if you were to arm drag him across and then use the vicegrip this would be a very difficult submissions to pull off because there is nothing cutting off his right corotid. I do not consider what you are doing in the first video a japanese necktie at all. Ive had full on Marces locked up and sometime cant finish let alone only using the vice grip. I know its possible to get a tap but in my opinion its very very low percentage. In the second vid it looks like all you are doing is arm dragging him into an underhook (giving him an underhook) and then doing a regular electric chair. Sorry man...Im just not getting what your trying to show here at all.

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He's right dude.

Hit it in a comp. But you wont be rolling white belts, sooo.. I dunno.

Honestly man what the others are saying is spot on. I would scrap these techniques and focus on things that are fundamentally sound. If you are looking to get affiliated I would def take these guys advice.

I myself like to play RDLR. But it's such a finicky and unstable position (especially nogi) that makes it (at least for me) more about the set up of elaborate traps to tilt their balance, than explosive movements. Now, with that said, if you have gotten this choke consistently on purple and up opponents, then it works. But your video is too fast. Maybe re-film it with a step by step guide. For example, imagine this ham sandwich video below, but only done in 10 seconds. I'd probably quickly dismiss it if I didn't know the source. Convince us, slower?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTvw...Bz3kNcQrQ#t=21

Hey Guys, thank you all for your advices and feedbacks.. I will consider them all and I will rethink both positions.
Thanks, this helps me.

Cheers

Good luck Stefan it will be great to see more 10th Planet in mainland europe!

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Originally Posted by Chris Garry

Good luck Stefan it will be great to see more 10th Planet in mainland europe!

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Thanks Chris!

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Originally Posted by VJ Bella

In the first vid even if you were to arm drag him across and then use the vicegrip this would be a very difficult submissions to pull off because there is nothing cutting off his right corotid.

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I arm drag to d'arces or arm in guillotine with the arm trapped, or if they swim back for the underhook regular arm in, regularly so there are chokes there, but yeah the vice grip seems to be weak there without having your core to apply pressure to the head.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Maxwell

Any time you're in any kind of half guard you're arm should never let that underhook get taken like that,

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off topic, but too be fair "Never" isn't exactly right. I go overhook lockdown to pyramid/meathook/flying kung fu all the time. Either if they force the underhook or if I can't make anything else work I'll give up the underhook.

The theory and idea are there. The execution and opponent reaction is suspect.

Thats why comp vids are the best way to introduce techs.

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Originally Posted by bobby rivers

The theory and idea are there. The execution and opponent reaction is suspect.

Thats why comp vids are the best way to introduce techs.

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..I will work on it, if I hit one of these in a comp I will post it imediately here.. If I'm not able to hit one of these in the one of the next competitions then I will skip them :-)! I promise!

Thanks guys for your opinions, tipps and feedbacks! This is a ongoing learning process for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stefan Rüegg

Hey 10th planet guys,
We www.Frota-Team.ch are still in the certification process for becoming a full 10th planet jiu jitsu Moon.
Meanwhile we are drilling positions, and here are two of them we working on, please check them and post your Feedback:

First: An Armdrag -janpanese neck tie position from the Reversed De La Riva:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9yv...mTyyFfjYZEMNhQ

Second: An Armdrag (opponent counters with a underhook knee slice pass) to lockdown half to electric chair:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUSh...mTyyFfjYZEMNhQ

whish everybody a nice day and keep on drilling!

cheers
stefan

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My two cents, The sub your setting up is Jap Necktie-Esque. If you watch jeff gloves Darcepedia he calls that the bolt cutter.

I'm not sold on the looseness of the RDLR to Armdrag to Boltcutter, But anything will work at the right time.

I'm not trying to flame you or anything and I know you're repping technique but if you're gonna put out a video make sure you and your training partner are 100% on the same page, giving real resistance (or what looks to be real), and reacting properly, Laying "Deadfish" on top of you doesn't illustrate to the viewer what's really happening either.

You know what I like about this thread? You're willing to take criticism and grow from it.

That's all that any of us can do for ourselves.

You'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Mccaghren

You know what I like about this thread? You're willing to take criticism and grow from it.

That's all that any of us can do for ourselves.

You'll be fine.

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Thanks! Yes, every feedback here helps me to learn, grow or gain knowledge..! That's why I asked for your opinions.
I'm fine and happy about every feedback.
Cheers